Fapa loa 67

[Dizel8]

AFAIK, no airline has ever been saved by employee give backs, but I wish you all the best! Rock and a hard place comes to mind!

 

[Axel]

The RAH contract is extremely weak. One of its greatest weaknesses is the inclusion of "conditional language" such as "best effort" and "when practicable." BB & co have applied this repeatedly to circumvent the intent of the language.

Without getting into the mainline v. RJ debate, the RAH pilots really do have a wealth of experience working under this management group. With (consistent) history as an indicator, allowing conditional language in any agreement with RAH management will result in them using the language to renege.

The F9 guys are certainly in an unenviable position. By all indicators, the branded side is struggling badly and its future is uncertain. A good faith effort by all parties to sacrifice in order to overcome hard times may be necessary to see Frontier survive and thrive. However the track record of this management group with regard to good faith, and especially when conditional language is involved, is not good.

The F9 guys can't be blamed for doing what they think is necessary to preserve the company and therefore their livelihoods, but they are "babes in the woods" when it comes to the tactics and strategies BB & co have employed to lower their labor costs. The RAH group has learned this through bitter experience. I truly hope this LOA is an exception.

 

[Shrek]

The RAH contract is extremely weak. One of its greatest weaknesses is the inclusion of "conditional language" such as "best effort" and "when practicable." BB & co have applied this repeatedly to circumvent the intent of the language.

Without getting into the mainline v. RJ debate, the RAH pilots really do have a wealth of experience working under this management group. With (consistent) history as an indicator, allowing conditional language in any agreement with RAH management will result in them using the language to renege.

The F9 guys are certainly in an unenviable position. By all indicators, the branded side is struggling badly and its future is uncertain. A good faith effort by all parties to sacrifice in order to overcome hard times may be necessary to see Frontier survive and thrive. However the track record of this management group with regard to good faith, and especially when conditional language is involved, is not good.

The F9 guys can't be blamed for doing what they think is necessary to preserve the company and therefore their livelihoods, but they are "babes in the woods" when it comes to the tactics and strategies BB & co have employed to lower their labor costs. The RAH group has learned this through bitter experience. I truly hope this LOA is an exception.

I think you summed that up PERFECTLY.........Good Luck guys the Rev is brutal.

 

[vetrider]

What's sad is that most of us hoped to benefit from the experience of quote-unquote "mainline" union experience. So disappointed we were to see it held away from us out of spite. Get ready. You guys are about to get BOHICA'd, BB-style.

That sounds like the bozos we had at AWA counting on the east to show us the way to deal with management and get a good contract.

 

[redflyer65]

Bedford is sooo far over his head it's insane. Good luck to the F9 guys, this looks like a slippery slope with a quick drop off. Not good.

RF

 

[Flying Illini]

Bedford is sooo far over his head it's insane. Good luck to the F9 guys, this looks like a slippery slope with a quick drop off. Not good.

RF

You nailed it. The SLI is the least of my worries and it should be the least of the F9'ers worries as well. If BB and WH don't get their act together we'll all be looking for jobs soon. WH should be fired by the BOD for not having plans to profitably run the airline. Back when RAH purchased F9 all indications were that fuel prices would continue to rise indefinitely. RAH should have taken that into acct before signig on the dotted line. To ignore that and to go ahead with the purchase and to try to operate the airline with your fingers crossed is negligent at best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bolo]

You nailed it. The SLI is the least of my worries and it should be the least of the F9'ers worries as well. If BB and WH don't get their act together we'll all be looking for jobs soon. WH should be fired by the BOD for not having plans to profitably run the airline. Back when RAH purchased F9 all indications were that fuel prices would continue to rise indefinitely. RAH should have taken that into acct before signig on the dotted line. To ignore that and to go ahead with the purchase and to try to operate the airline with your fingers crossed is negligent at best.

Agreed +1 They also tried to reinvent the airline and look where it got them.

 

[AirBill]

We(F9) appreciate your concern. Shouldn't you worry about your negotiations? How are they coming along?

They'll be dead in the water if the RPC is voted in.

 

[StaySeated]

They'll be dead in the water if the RPC is voted in.

Actually, if the RPC is voted in you get to keep your Local 357 and all of your committe reps as long as you want them (that is your choice and no other pilot group has the right to choose what is right or wrong for you). You also benefit from 700+ pilots (and their bank account) working along side of you.

Or you can vote for the IBT and keep your Local 357 and all of your committee reps, and you can have 700+ pilots (and their bank account) working to destroy you. No one wants to be forced into a bargaining unit. Forcing the IBT on the Frontier pilots will only result in more harm and disfunctional behavior.

Sounds like a no-brainer. The RPC is the only structure that will work with this Holding company.

Why anyone thinks that "taking over" one group equates to "unity" is a mystery to me.

A vote for the IBT is a vote for a poison pill for the entire pilot group.

To take it a step furthur, what is the IBT offering any of us, all 3000 of us?

What is their vision of our future?

The only IBT campaign literature I have received is the typical IBT scare tactics.

They are trying to scare you into thinking that your contract negotiations will be delayed. This is not true, you guys can continue on whatever course you deem appropriate.

They are trying to scare you into thinking that we will all end up without any representation. This is a joke, the only way we can end up non-union is if a majority of the votes cast are for "no representation".

They are trying to convince you that the IBT will support your strike. When are you guys going on strike? 2013? 2014? Do you have any idea on the average length of mediated negotiations? We are talking years not months.

They are trying to scare you into thinking that the RPC will not be recognized by the NMB. This is not true, the RPC structure is an IBT concept that is working very well at a number of other IBT properties.

If you look past the scare tactics and propaganda, it is easy to see that the IBT is offering nothing to the pilot group.

The RPC will afford all 3000 pilots a new voice.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I don't think you have to join the IBT union, you can for go union membership and not receive any union protections. It is however a union shop, you are required to pay your union dues or your fired.

 

[AirBill]

Jeff ..., erm, SS,

All I'll say is, FAPA had a golden opportunity to add all 3,000 pilots into its group. The enmity most guys felt toward IBT around here was so palatable, most felt it could not survive. FAPA could have swooped in and taken the entire group with any kind of decent attempt. It chose not to. Why?

And why, with one IMSL, does there need to be separate representation? Why perpetuate a caste system that only drives total wages down? Why allow yourselves to be part of the wedge that management is attempting to use to split the groups?

Actually, I'm surprised management is working that hard at it. Way things are going around here, we're doing a pretty good job of splitting ourselves.

Good luck with two or three or four or five percent of nothing.

 

[trainer8]

...Or you can vote for the IBT and keep your Local 357 and all of your committee reps, and you can have 700+ pilots (and their bank account) working to destroy you. No one wants to be forced into a bargaining unit. Forcing the IBT on the Frontier pilots will only result in more harm and dysfunctional behavior.

Why anyone thinks that "taking over" one group equates to "unity" is a mystery to me.

From the RPC website:

"We are a group of Lynx, Midwest, Frontier and Republic Airways pilots who believe we can be stronger and more effective if we work together as a group."

Wow...all from the same Council. There is medication for this problem.

 

[The Drizzle]

Our FAPA who art in Denver
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, BB's will be done
In Indy as it is in Denver.
Give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our scope as we forgive those
who have no scope.
And lead us not into integration
but deliver us from the evil IBT.

 

[Bolo]

Our FAPA who art in Denver
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, BB's will be done
In Indy as it is in Denver.
Give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our scope as we forgive those
who have no scope.
And lead us not into integration
but deliver us from the evil IBT.

Props! Pretty funny.