Famous Scabs

[Boeingman]

Let's see Tiger Woods. Sports figure extraordinaire. I doubt he is a card carrying member of the SAG.

Briteny Spears, Singer. I doubt a card carrying SAG member as well.

Kilomike I envy you if this is some of the pressing issues you need to worry about.

More mindless drivel.

 

[Green Banana]

Nope, no scab here. I'm just a CFI trying to make some sense out of this.

I'm all about advancing the profession, but if a union were to take an action that fundementally crossed my beliefs, I'd be the first to cross the line.

WOW, I hope to never fly at an airline with you. sorry but UNION is how the game is played. Back your brother (or sis) move and stand strong, not stab them in the back and take thier wallet (or purse).

If not for strong unions, pilots for UAL, AAL, DAL, would be treated, and paid like City bus, Gray hound, School bus! The diffrence was that airline pilots stood togther and said "WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS" You are riding on the backs of those before you. Please, Please stay at CFI-ing.

 

[publisher]

Yes

Tiger and Brittaney are members "card carrying"of SAG because it was required for some commercial work, although I am sure it would take some searching for them to come up with the card let alone care anything about it.

Secondly, "if not for strong unions ... paid like school bus drivers?" Excuse me please! This has always been a profession looked up to and revered, paid well and treated well for the most part, unions or non-union. Let's get a grip on reality here.

ALPA is not keeping people from the food lines. They can contribute but lets keep a sense of value.

 

[Green Banana]

Uh, sorry,
Before unions, flying was not well paid and respected. It was not at all un common to have an entire pilot group called to a meeting and told "Look we have got to cut costs, so you are all fired. If you want a job for half of what you maid, sign here. if not, there is the door. It is truly a sad day when we forget our past. try picking up a copy of "flying the line"
Or better yet, work for an airline.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Fundamental Beliefs...

I'm all about advancing the profession, but if a union were to take an action that fundementally crossed my beliefs, I'd be the first to cross the line.

Like what, more safety, better pay, work rules which improve your quality of life, life insurance, loss of license insurance, legal representation, medical info and advice, job protection, and collective bargaining power. Which of these abhorrant services and benefits might cross your beliefs???

 

[Timebuilder]

I guess that I have to take some personal resposibility here for mentioning AFTRA and SAG in a previous post.

Both Britney and Tiger are eligible for up to three "waivers" before joining the union, but commercial contracts like theirs will likely carry a contrubution to the health and retirement plans of SAG for their work. Since they are not actors for their livelihood, they are not seen as taking struck work. In the unlikely event (!) that I had been cast in either production, I would have been identifed as as scab.

Also, it is very likely that Britney carries an AFM (american federation of musicians) card, and some venues may also require an Equity card, although this has declined radically in the age of television.

While we all have a right to disagree with a union, even our own, we should refuse the benefits won in that negotiation if we have crossed the line. Since this would tend to be ignored by most people, the better idea is to make an individual contribution to the negoiating process by respecting that process, and therfore the "line". As I said in a previous post, I feel that my old union is still a benefit to me by maintaining a standard in the industry. A rising tide raises all boats, remember?

While union membership has declined in many labor sectors, it is unlikely to decline in this one. While it still remains in aviation, it is important to observe the word "collective" in collective bargaining.

 

[FlyinBrian]

In my opinion, this discussion doesn't belong on this board. Neither Tiger Woods nor Britney are involved in Aviation. If we're gonna talk unions and scabs, let's keep it in in aviation at least.

(and quit ruining my perfect image of Britney.)

 

[Timebuilder]

Remeber, Brian, both Tiger and Britney fly in private jets. They may even own them outright, so in a roundabout way, we may be dicussing our future employers!
Maybe Brit will call and say "flyme!"

 

[FlyinBrian]

I think if Britney wanted a ride, I'd oblige her. Scab or not.

 

[BigFlyr]

Those of you who never had to make the decision to cross a picket line or not, are not qualified to talk about the subject. Whether you agree with a union's point of view or not is not the issue here. It's standing up to a majority vote and respecting the majority decision of your fellow pilots. By crossing a picket line you are undermining the union and everything it stands for, therefore you should and will be labled a "scab" since you have made yourself a black sheep... It will follow you throughout your career and even if you change careers you'll still be a scab. It is something that cannot be undone, reversed, cured or justified. If you think you will ever have to cross a picket line you would do yourself and everyone else a favor by not joining a union.

 

[publisher]

point

Bigflyr, you have a legitimate belief and for that I respect your position.

I also saw Eastern and Pan American go down, I feel, partly because of the position taken by unions when it became personal and not business. I had a union negotiator in another industry tell me that I had my 50% to pass, lets not waste time on other issues, lets get out of here.

Tiger Woods is the owner of EJA Netjets shares. In short he employs pilots and purchases aircraft. I would assume that Brittaney probably does too.

Perhaps one would suggest that the pilots wait at the stairs and then yell scab as he boards. It did not give my Eastern friend much satisfaction when he yelled scab at those who crossed the line. When he blew his brains out, I do not really think he was very concerned about it. There were no winners.

 

[enigma]

what's a scab

Good try at flame, but a scab is one who takes the job of a worker who is on strike. Using the true definition of scab, neither Brit nor Tiger are scabs because they did not take the job of a worker who was on strike. Unless there is another Brit or Tiger, they couldn't be taking the work of a striking Brit or Tiger. Think about it.

 

[canyonblue]

Remeber, Brian, both Tiger and Britney fly in private jets. They may even own them outright, so in a roundabout way, we may be dicussing our future employers!
Maybe Brit will call and say "flyme!"

Don't know about Tiger, but my good friend at ExecJet flew Britney from LAS to LAX. She left her half drank evian on the plane. He found it and...... Well I think he's sick.

 

[1900laker]

There are very few airlines left that are not "union shops". So if you take a job with such a company, you should realize that you are expected to either join the union membership, or decline membership but still pay the union dues. If you don't feel like the unions are helpful and there for a reason, I would recommend looking elsewhere for employment. That way, in case there should ever be a strike at that airline that you don't support the union on, you won't be faced with the life-long consequences of having scabbed during the strike. Just remember that when you accept a new job somewhere that you are accepting all that comes along with it. And in this day and age, that means the union part of it as well.

I'm of the opinion that if the Union was there before you got at job at xyz airline, then you support the union actions when they occur or find another job.

If you were there before the Union, then you might have more of a leg to stand on in opposing union actions.



And as far as the screen actors guild goes, do you think that when Alec Baldwin cashed his last check for making Pearl Harbor, that he felt guilty and gave an extra piece of that money back to the camera-men, seconds, make-up, editors, etc. Most of those actors in Hollywood care more about what ribbon they are going to wear on their lapel this week than some starving camera guy.
That whole issue is apples and oranges compared to the airlines. Does Hollywood have to comply with the RLA? They can tiger strike/sick out whenever they want. Seems to me people like Tiger and Brittany actually have created jobs for many individuals, not taken them away. And I also suppose that all those staunch supporters of the guild boycotted television and movies for the duration of the strike right? I don't really expect anyone outside the airline industry to give a rat's posterior about our unions/ strikes/ etc., except when it affects them directly. I seriously doubt if the cameramen on the set of some movie spends his lunch hour pondering how he feels about the airlines labor problems. And finally, the biggest contrast between the two is that the ONLY LEGAL bargaining power an airline union has is threat of a strike, thanks to the shackles of the RLA.

(1900laker steps down from the soapbox)

 

[Huck]

Dear Canyonblue - thanks for the good laugh. I needed one today.......