"Fair" treatment for "experienced" pilots comes home to roost?

[atrdriver]

Be careful what you wish for. Stricter medical standards would probably weed out some over 60 pilots. Unfortunately it would get rid of a heck of a lot of pilots under 60!! I'm amazed at the number of pilots I see (and some I know personally) in their 30's 40's and 50's, who are overweight anywhere from a few pounds to God knows how much. I don't think they have heard of exercise, eat healthy, no smoking, cut down on the coffee etc. Don't believe me? Just look around.

I'd be willing to bet that if the US went to the same medical standards that IACO has 30-40% of pilots over 40 would lose their medicals. And It WILL happen, it's just a matter of when. As soon as the 65 thing passed it was a guarantee that the medical standards would get tougher at some point.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Solution: Let them all come back...to the bottom of the list.

They can do that now. Under the law, they are not precluded from returning to their airlines, only from sueing for their seniority.

They can all come back as new hire F/Os.

 

[vetrider]

They should just be happy for their experienced brothers who made the 17th cutoff, congratulate them, stfu, and call it a day. But noooooo.....

If I were king for a day I'd just change it back to 60. Look, you children can't behave, so we're turning this car back around right NOW.

Seriously, though, just let em sue. Fight it out in the courts, its the American way.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts. No one can argue against justice if it is righteous and true. If anyone’s actions, ALPA, FAA, APA, ATA or individual airlines were acting against the law or the Constitution, then those affected by such actions should be made whole. In the case of the age 60 law, after 11/23/06, the FAA did not grant equal protection under the law when it allowed some Americans (those flying for a foreign airline) to fly in this country when others in this country could not. While the FAA failed and may have to pay, ALPA/APA did everything they could to help perpetuate this injustice. What will happen is up to the Federal Courts

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

After 12/13/07 the injustice of the law became worse and a greater target. Yes, it did allow many to keep flying, but it prevented those born before that date from working for no reason except their birthday.

Justice will come, it will either strike down the age 65 law altogether or it will sustain the change and award compensation to those wronged. Personally, I think most would just as soon take the cash and run. It's mostly all about money! Not all, but mostly.

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they? They all knew what they were doing was wrong at the time and were warned over and over of the lawsuits that would follow after 11/23/06 if the age 60 law was not changed for all American as well as foreign crews.

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each. Would that be difficult for ALPA and APA to pay? If so, it's just as this thread implies, "The Chickens are Coming Home to Roost."

 

[Patriot328]

They can do that now. Under the law, they are not precluded from returning to their airlines, only from sueing for their seniority.

They can all come back as new hire F/Os.

Too bad no one is hiring.... Just think, if we had some retirements coming up, we might have some hiring this year.... but whoops...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts. No one can argue against justice if it is righteous and true. If anyone’s actions, ALPA, FAA, APA, ATA or individual airlines were acting against the law or the Constitution, then those affected by such actions should be made whole. In the case of the age 60 law, after 11/23/06, the FAA did not grant equal protection under the law when it allowed some Americans (those flying for a foreign airline) to fly in this country when others in this country could not. While the FAA failed and may have to pay, ALPA/APA did everything they could to help perpetuate this injustice. What will happen is up to the Federal Courts

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

After 12/13/07 the injustice of the law became worse and a greater target. Yes, it did allow many to keep flying, but it prevented those born before that date from working for no reason except their birthday.

Justice will come, it will either strike down the age 65 law altogether or it will sustain the change and award compensation to those wronged. Personally, I think most would just as soon take the cash and run. It's mostly all about money! Not all, but mostly.

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they? They all knew what they were doing was wrong at the time and were warned over and over of the lawsuits that would follow after 11/23/06 if the age 60 law was not changed for all American as well as foreign crews.

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each. Would that be difficult for ALPA and APA to pay? If so, it's just as this thread implies, "The Chickens are Coming Home to Roost."

Your take on reality....is amazing...

making ALPA, the APA, ATA or whoever liable for a law that congress passed..... is..... amazing....

Where do you people come from?

There are 3000 pilots effected? 300 million people in this country?

So this country is going to take time for .0001% of us....

 

[instructordude]

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

“It is often easier to become outraged by injustice half a world away than by oppression and discrimination half a block from home.”

Carl T Rowan

Let's do the right and bring these guys back. We can show as a group, we are United against discrimination and will not tolerate it now nor will we accept its evil past.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts. No one can argue against justice if it is righteous and true. If anyone’s actions, ALPA, FAA, APA, ATA or individual airlines were acting against the law or the Constitution, then those affected by such actions should be made whole. In the case of the age 60 law, after 11/23/06, the FAA did not grant equal protection under the law when it allowed some Americans (those flying for a foreign airline) to fly in this country when others in this country could not. While the FAA failed and may have to pay, ALPA/APA did everything they could to help perpetuate this injustice. What will happen is up to the Federal Courts

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

After 12/13/07 the injustice of the law became worse and a greater target. Yes, it did allow many to keep flying, but it prevented those born before that date from working for no reason except their birthday.

Justice will come, it will either strike down the age 65 law altogether or it will sustain the change and award compensation to those wronged. Personally, I think most would just as soon take the cash and run. It's mostly all about money! Not all, but mostly.

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they? They all knew what they were doing was wrong at the time and were warned over and over of the lawsuits that would follow after 11/23/06 if the age 60 law was not changed for all American as well as foreign crews.

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each. Would that be difficult for ALPA and APA to pay? If so, it's just as this thread implies, "The Chickens are Coming Home to Roost."

Other's should be taking notes, the man has a point.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I agree with you worthless SCAB and all of the other baby boomer douchbags that have benefited from the guys before you retiring at 60. You all get to come back with seniority, however your pay, retirement you have already received, and earnings adjusted using a lookback at your career advancement due to pilots having to retire at 60 that are past 65 and can't come back is recouped for those pilots via your current paycheck and a lump some to buy back in. If you won't agree to that it just proves what a bunch of greedy SCUMBAG SCABS you are. So, go ahead and sue alpa. We, the active pilots will disband alpa so quick you senile greedy old losers won't have anyone to sue.

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts. No one can argue against justice if it is righteous and true. If anyone’s actions, ALPA, FAA, APA, ATA or individual airlines were acting against the law or the Constitution, then those affected by such actions should be made whole. In the case of the age 60 law, after 11/23/06, the FAA did not grant equal protection under the law when it allowed some Americans (those flying for a foreign airline) to fly in this country when others in this country could not. While the FAA failed and may have to pay, ALPA/APA did everything they could to help perpetuate this injustice. What will happen is up to the Federal Courts

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

After 12/13/07 the injustice of the law became worse and a greater target. Yes, it did allow many to keep flying, but it prevented those born before that date from working for no reason except their birthday.

Justice will come, it will either strike down the age 65 law altogether or it will sustain the change and award compensation to those wronged. Personally, I think most would just as soon take the cash and run. It's mostly all about money! Not all, but mostly.

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they? They all knew what they were doing was wrong at the time and were warned over and over of the lawsuits that would follow after 11/23/06 if the age 60 law was not changed for all American as well as foreign crews.

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each. Would that be difficult for ALPA and APA to pay? If so, it's just as this thread implies, "The Chickens are Coming Home to Roost."

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts. No one can argue against justice if it is righteous and true. If anyone’s actions, ALPA, FAA, APA, ATA or individual airlines were acting against the law or the Constitution, then those affected by such actions should be made whole. In the case of the age 60 law, after 11/23/06, the FAA did not grant equal protection under the law when it allowed some Americans (those flying for a foreign airline) to fly in this country when others in this country could not. While the FAA failed and may have to pay, ALPA/APA did everything they could to help perpetuate this injustice. What will happen is up to the Federal Courts

Can anyone argue against justice? Basically, wrongdoers should pay and those wronged should be righted. Does anyone have a problem with this?

After 12/13/07 the injustice of the law became worse and a greater target. Yes, it did allow many to keep flying, but it prevented those born before that date from working for no reason except their birthday.

Justice will come, it will either strike down the age 65 law altogether or it will sustain the change and award compensation to those wronged. Personally, I think most would just as soon take the cash and run. It's mostly all about money! Not all, but mostly.

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they? They all knew what they were doing was wrong at the time and were warned over and over of the lawsuits that would follow after 11/23/06 if the age 60 law was not changed for all American as well as foreign crews.

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each. Would that be difficult for ALPA and APA to pay? If so, it's just as this thread implies, "The Chickens are Coming Home to Roost."

The lawsuits will go nowhere. Here's my take on it; in order for those pilots to have a 'cause of action' they would have to 'state and prove' that the law as enacted is 'discriminatory' on the basis of age, and did not provide for 'equal treatment' under the law. If they are successful in doing so, and a Federal Judge finds as such; the Judge would have No choice but to 'strike down' the Law. In such a case, it would be as though the Law was never enacted, and the previous law (age 60) would prevail. Thus, the day after the Judge's decision, everyone over the age of 60 would Not be legally allowed to fly. Then the advocates of age 65 would have to get the congress to enact a new, with a 'New' congress and probably even more opposition.

That's my take. Maybe Occam can chime in on this, as he always seems to have a very logical and reasoned outlook. Tell me where my logic has gone wrong??

For what its worth.

PD

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

making ALPA, the APA, ATA or whoever liable for a law that congress passed..... is..... amazing....
quote]

Can't you read or what? It's for the law they didn't change by 11/23/06, and the privileges given to others and not all.

Don't you believe in justice if a wrong was commited?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Can't you read or what? It's for the law they didn't change by 11/23/06, and the privileges given to others and not all.

Don't you believe in justice if a wrong was commited?

Congress wanted the law passed..... they know how to pass laws....

Your justice view is subjective....

 

[atrdriver]

Let's do the right and bring these guys back. We can show as a group, we are United against discrimination and will not tolerate it now nor will we accept its evil past.

Lets let them do the right thing and all retire when they hit age 60, just like the everyone before them had to do. It is not discrimination, any more than having to be age 23 to get an ATP is discrimination.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Can't you read or what? It's for the law they didn't change by 11/23/06, and the privileges given to others and not all.

Don't you believe in justice if a wrong was commited?

Undaunted,

Read my post above and tell me where I am wrong in my logic. As I said, in order for them to prove their case, they would have to 'challenge' the law on the basis that it was/is 'discriminatory' and if successful, a Federal Judge would have NO Choice but to 'strike down' the law, and would be as though the law was NEVER enacted. Right??

PD

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The lawsuits will go nowhere.
For what its worth.
PD

Thanks for your take on this and you may be right, but I prefer to listen to the attorneys who are experts on constitutional law.

There are many suits on this. One is the suit over why those requesting a waiver of the law following 11/23/06 were denied the requests. There is no real basis for the denial when all that is required is that the waiver requests prove an equal level of safety, such as was already being given to the foreign crews. How could the FAA say a B777 from ORD to FRA was OK to be flown by an over age-60 pilot for a foreign airline but not for an American pilot flying for UAL or American. Did the FAA put out warnings to the public that the foreign airlines were less safe? No. So the denial of the waiver requests was according to politics and not in accordance with law. The chickens will come home to roost on this one.

And your question about if the current pilots over age 60 who are flying could possibly lose their jobs if the recent change is found to be unconstitutional, the answer is NO. The over age-60 pilots are here to stay. There is no way any change is going to cause them to have to quit while the foreign crews can still fly in this country. Agan, it's all "equal protection-treatment." That's the law.