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failing out of new hirer training


Aug 22, 2002
Total Time
After failing out of a new hirer training program at a regional, I wanted to know what i should be doing to better prepare myself for the next training program. Is there still hope that i can get on with another company.


Remember this one?
Nov 27, 2001
Total Time
Ciao Alitalia! Come stai?

Sei Italiano?

Try not to worry too much. Try to put this behind you. A professional will know where he needs improvement.

Did you fail the groundschool, the sim or not make it through IOE?

Now is good time to find another job to establish a good work history. There's not much going on at the majors so use this time to put another job between you and the good job you really want.

Employers look at work history. If you have a history of failing new hire groundschools then they'll probably not be interested. You need to figure out where your weakness is right now and get another job right away.

Buona fortuna amico. Se hai piu domande me email, ma non parlo l'italiano molto bene:)


Well-known member
Jan 21, 2002
Total Time

I'm sorry you've had this unhappy experience. However, all is not lost.

My first recommendation is that you be certain that you do not fail to admit the problem on future apps. If asked, tell the truth. There are records of your training and they will follow you. Don't worry about that, but don't forget it either.

Carefully try to assess why this happened to you. You can always fool others, but never yourself. Once you've determined the reason(s), develop a program of self-improvement to correct the mistakes. When you are confident that you have cured the errors, start over and try again. You'll get there.

Keep in mind that there are no perfect pilots anywhere. Flying is a series of corrections to errors and that will always be the case. Identify the errors and take action to correct them.

Good luck


Dec 1, 2001
Total Time
Without knowing exactly why you failed, I'll just tell you what helped me.

Before Ground School:
Study 121 regs prior to ground school. Know them better than you know 91.

If you can, get a hold of a copy of the limitations of the aircraft you'll be in and know them before school. (75% of the oral exam)

During Ground School:
Read ahead, read the next days chapters the night before

Study, every night, during lunch, breakfast and bathroom breaks.

Cue Cards, 90% of the learning from Cue Cards is making them.

Study flows, profiles, calls etc and know them flawlessly. You'll forget half of what you know in the sim.

Relax, you've passed.

I hope you see a theme, study every chance you get, study what is important. My oral exam was heavily weighted towards regulations and operational issues with a few systems questions and of course limitations. Of course every airline is different and every examiner in the airline is different. For me the hardest part is the oral exam. Give me a multiple choice answer any day.

Good Luck at your next job.

PS...the above advice is great too, use it with mine


Well-known member
Nov 26, 2001
Total Time
Better luck next time

I like your screen name, too. I instructed Alitalia students at FlightSafety in Vero Beach, Florida, ten years ago.

I agree with the above. I had a friend who struggled with Mesa initial training twelve years ago. Ground school came at him hot and heavy and he couldn't keep up, although he studied like crazy. And, in those days, Mesa ground school wasn't much. I think the problem was lack of preparation. Everything was new to my friend.

The key is advance preparation. Try to get some gouge ahead of time. Ask if you can get all the manuals, diagrams, checklists, flows, etc. before ground school. The answer might be "no," but try anyway. See if you can get the stuff from people who are already there, bearing in mind that it may be taught differently in ground school.

You must admit what happened on future apps. You must exhibit a positive attitude at the interview. You would say that you learned from the experience, that you are a good pilot and student, and you now know what it takes to pass a rigorous training program, etc.

Best of luck at your next class.


Well-known member
Nov 25, 2001
Total Time
Don't forget to give yourself one hour a day to excercise and relax. If you have a day off blow-off half of it and go climb a mountain or fish or something. You have to recharge your mental and emotional batteries. Don't drink- that will really mess you up.


House X by Peter Eisenman
Dec 18, 2001
Total Time
My 2cents,

Ground School:
Try to study with a group, 2-4 people max...5 is too much. In systems, try to study with a Captain(s) as much as possible. No CA's? The group thing works best with an all FO class. I got together with CA's and it helped out a lot. I agree with the exersize comment. Find a local gym and pay the money...it's worth it. Your productivity and efficiency will dramatically increase...Ground School is like a race with no pit stops...time is your fuel...make the most of it.

Start to memorize flows during systems to get ahead of the game. The worst scenario is an all FO class...then you have twice the amount of flows. It sucks. During CPT's personality problems usually start to unsurface between sim partners. Work them out during CPT's because during the sim, it's too late.

Having a sim partner that will back you up is critical. Usually people do poorly because of personality issues. I've seen fist fights in the parking lot. The worst scenario is the two pilots and the sim instructor all hate each other. This can be a true cluster _F. Working things out before the sim sessions start is critical.
I reviewed each sim session with my partner before each session.
What I've seen is a poor new hire FO is stuck with a crabby CA and the CA won't spend time any time to mentor the FO. Or two FO's or two CA's are paired up and they hate each other. It's a classic cascade effect...howcan you fly when your distracted with personal problems?

In summary, most people that I've seen who didn't make it through newhire training were technically competent. It was personality conflicts or outside factors (family etc) that distracted them from focusing on studying.

Hope my ramblings help...don't give up!!!!



Well-known member
Dec 30, 2001
Total Time
I'd have to agree with the prep. advice. If you can do it prior to GS, get the immediate action memory items, and limitations. You have to know these COLD, so you might as well start early on them. Also, the best way to be prepared for the sim is to know all of the Flows, Call outs, and traffic pattern "sequence".. You will be WAY to busy in the sim to be "working on flows" or trying to think of the call outs. If you know this stuff before sim 1, you will be in good shape..

Good luck!!


Where's Pancakes House
Nov 26, 2001
Total Time
If you really want to make a carreer out of aviation, I highly recommend getting your ATP certificate immediately and get a job flying no matter what it is. It sounds like you want to solve the problem so it shouldn't be a problem. Get active in aviation, network, and attend job fairs. If your resume shows growth after the unsuccessful ground school, future employers will see that you have recovered and are dedicated. Everybody has weaknesses, but what makes a person stand out it is if you overcome them as much as possible.



And shepherds we shall be
Dec 20, 2001
Total Time
Surplus 1 good post. Good posts by everyone actually.

Personally...my old G/S instructor at Comair (pre-strike) told our class not to worry about the Brasilia systems and limitations until we finished indoc. Which is why they didnt pass out the FSM and systems books until we were done with indoc. He also told us not to study anything we might have gotten from an online internet source. So he made it a very relaxing enviornment. D.O. if I ever see you on an overnight I owe you about 6 beers. (within a 12 hour window of course)

I'm not very good at group study. Studying with my partner helped a lot but in a big group I feel that not everyone gets the whole benefit. Just my 2cents.

KSUaviator I'm assuming from you're "SEE YA!" that you're based out of DTW for Mesaba. Now I have to disagree with you one one issue buddy. At Distress I (sort of like Mesaba only half the calories of regular NW Airlink) we've had people not make it through IOE. So when you get past the checkride, dont think you're home free. You'll get extra IOE but if you dont progress you can still be let go. But here's the secret...99% of it is ATTITUDE. Show you want to learn and you'll make it through. KSU I owe you a beer too for letting me interject. (SEE YAAAA!)

My experience shows that you should relax before every day of G/S. Get a good nights sleep. Burning the midnight oil can be detrimental but make the most of your studying before calling it a night. Exercise and ask questions when you dont understand. Learning a new airplane can be a great experience if you let it. You guys fly safe.

600' AGL Autopilot on


Active member
May 1, 2002
Total Time
Alitalia...keep your chin up. All the guys offered good advice. From my experience, time management and organization during ground school will go a long way. Also, dont be afraid to ask for some help if you need it. Its in the company's best interest for you to do well, I think most instuctors will go the extra mile to help if you're really trying your best.
I've met one or two guys along the way who washed out of a 121 class, now they're on line and doing fine.

Best of luck to you.