FAA "do not call list" and company calling you during rest periods

[GE CF34-3B1]

Remember how the FAA came out with that “Do Not Call” list, where crewmembers could specify to not be contacted by their company during a rest period.

I then remember the FAA changing their interpretation a little, and then stating that the company could make ONE ATTEMPT only to contact the crewmember during the rest period. But that further attempts were not permitted.

Can anyone summarize exactly what the FAA ruling and opinion is on that. And can anyone also quote any FAR numbers and FAA documentation on this.

Unfortunately I work for a company that will call you multiple times throughout the night on both the hotel phone and your cell phone. They will also have hotel people bang on your door during your rest period. Isn’t all of this illegal now? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[AnimalMother]

If you are under obligation to take a phone call it isn't rest. If they have hotel workers bang on your door that is not considered rest but also harassment. Sure they can attempt to contact you, but you are not required to take a phone call or trip assignment while under rest.

 

[Dave Siegel]

.....

 

[Andy Neill]

I think 121.471e is most applicable to the situation you are describing for Domestic Part 121 operations (121.485 b for flag 121 operations).

"No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept assignment to any duty with the air carrier during any required rest period."

I'll leave the FAA interpretations to those that have them on hand. I don't.

 

[Ty Webb]

A certificate holder can contact an individual during rest to inform them of a change to the next flight without "resetting" the rest period, per our FOM, however, what you are describing goes far beyond that.

It would seem to me that repeated interruption of a pilot's rest period by Scheduling would result in fatigue . . . not much they can do if you call in fatigued, and replacing a pilot in an outstation is pretty expensive. . . . seems to me that the practice would stop pretty quickly.

 

[BHS]

How about a Part 121 Charter Airline that doesn't stipulate where rest time is located in a 24 hour period? Where is the 8 hours of rest? Does the F.A.A. care if a reserve day is shown for a whole 24 hours in a day?

 

[Andy Neill]

How about a Part 121 Charter Airline that doesn't stipulate where rest time is located in a 24 hour period? Where is the 8 hours of rest? Does the F.A.A. care if a reserve day is shown for a whole 24 hours in a day?

Presuming this falls under Supplemental Operations, 121.505/507/509b would apply saying that the crewmember of 2/3/4 pilot crews may not be on duty for more than 16/18/20 hours respectively in a 24 hour period. IMHO, a 24 hour reserve period would not be legal.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Greetings Andy-


Hope all is well with your new job.

My new company actually mentions this in the FOM. It says that a crewmember contacted by crew scheduling during a rest period does not constitute an interruption of rest. It doesn't limit or restrict how many times scheduling can call.

I think this is complete BS, except in an emergency. Either the FAA approves of this action or it got by the POI when he/she signed off on our FOM.

I was actually called at about 10:10am one day for a shift that started at 1:00pm (my reserve day was to begin at 4:00pm). The duty time had me off at about 3:10am the next day. I questioned the legality of the assignment since 10:10am plus 16 hours equals 2:10am. Scheduling said, "Oh no, your duty time starts at 1:00pm. What is your problem?".

Cheers!

GP

 

[Ty Webb]

I was actually called at about 10:10am one day for a shift that started at 1:00pm (my reserve day was to begin at 4:00pm). The duty time had me off at about 3:10am the next day. I questioned the legality of the assignment since 10:10am plus 16 hours equals 2:10am. Scheduling said, "Oh no, your duty time starts at 1:00pm. What is your problem?".

At our airline, you would not have had to answer your phone until 4:00 p.m., so it would have been a moot point. Actually, you wouldn't have had to answer it at all, just return their call by 4:15.

 

[bayoubandit]

Guppy,

I could only wish we had this subject in our FOM at your former company. The other day sched.'s called my cell, hotel phone, and had the front desk slide a message under my door all for an assignment the following day.

In a former life, maybe 2 lives??, it specifically allowed per FOM one phone call for notification purposes. I thought this was specified in the FAR's, but it seems it is company/contractual dependent.

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

From an FAA legal interpretation:

"The answer to your question is this: rest period regulations, as consistently interpreted by the Agency, are not violated by one telephone call from the certificate holder to the flight crewmember.

This interpretation has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters. We hope that it has satisfactorily answered your inquiry."

There are a number of interpretations dealing with the rest period regulations of both 135 and 121 but they all say the same thing. Clearly the key is one call. What you're experiencing is just plain wrong. It's an issue of safety and QOL. It's unfortunate that so many in this industry either don't seem to know the rules or don't want to play by them.

 

[cargohauling]

Beware of Ameristar

This is a disturbing trend in our industry. Ameristar, a poor excuse for an airline, has recently lost three VERY COSTLY lawsuits in Federal Court filed by former pilots, who were brave enough to risk their jobs rather than be blackmailed into breaking duty and rest regs. ALL of these lawsuits mentioned contact during required rest. Bottom line: YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE 8 HOURS REST A DAY!!!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Here's some pearls of wisdom I rec'd as a new hire and they still work today:

Unplug your phone while on layover, unless you are being paid to sit next to it, and NEVER, EVER give the company your cell number! Buy a pager for that crap and you decide if you want to return the call if you think it's in your best interest!

As far as I know, someone banging on my door in the middle of the night is attempting to break in. Call the police.

YMMV

 

[8vATE]

Remember how the FAA came out with that “Do Not Call” list, where crewmembers could specify to not be contacted by their company during a rest period.

I then remember the FAA changing their interpretation a little

Yes.... a FSDO somewhere actually put it in writing that they interpreted the reg. in such a way that a pilot could notify their company that they did NOT want to be contacted for any reason during their rest....

Within about six months they backed off of this ...

So there is NOTHING in writing about being able to create a no contact list...

As everyone else here mentions... most company FOMs allow one call.... while also stating you do not have to be contactable during rest..

FWIW.....

 

[Proximity]

This is a disturbing trend in our industry. Ameristar, a poor excuse for an airline, has recently lost three VERY COSTLY lawsuits in Federal Court filed by former pilots, who were brave enough to risk their jobs rather than be blackmailed into breaking duty and rest regs.

Are you sure it was Ameristar based out of Addison, TX? Doesn't sound like something Ameristar would be doing.

 

[Weasil]

doesn't your contract address this issue? I know ours does.

 

[727Drivers]

Quote:
Are you sure it was Ameristar based out of Addison, TX? Doesn't sound like something Ameristar would be doing.


Proximity:

Yes the Addison, TX Ameristar. I'll try to find the link to their last Federal Court loss. Their former DO sued, won and aired a ton of Dirty Ameristar Laundry. A few Highlights:
DO is a convicted Felon who has been in Federal Prison.
CP was caught on tape, trying to falsify records.
Dozens of violations, accidents (a few fatal) and incidents.
I should start a thread warning pilots against this outfit.

 

[md8pilot]

The Answer

"One Call" was addressed in a letter from FAA Assistant Chief Counsel Donald Byrne on November 7, 2003, to Mr. James W. Johnson, Supervisory Attorney at ALPA. Here are the more pertinent paragraphs:

"It is the FAA's policy, under the commonly referred to "one phone call exception," that a rest period is not viewed as interrupted if the air carrier makes contact with the pilot one time by telephone, pager or the like. Once the contact is made, it cannot, however, be made again without interrupting the rest period."

To reemphasize - under no circumstances is a pilot obligated to answer the telephone if the pilot is considered to be on rest. It appears that some people overlook the voluntary nature of receiving phone calls. Thus, if the pilot seeks to have an uninterrupted rest’ period, the pilot certainly can take measures to prevent being contacted by the carrier, e.g., if the pilot is staying at a hotel, the front desk can hold any incoming calls; or if the pilot is at home, the telephone ringer can be turned off and an answering machine can pick up calls."

At the same time, however, an air carrier should consider the consequences of repeatedly trying to reach a pilot who is on rest (assuming the pilot has not explicitly provided the air carrier a "do not call" letter). For example, if a pilot must report for duty by 7 a.m., he or she is likely sleeping during the hours of midnight to 5 a.m.; or if a pilot is on an 8 hour rest period, he or she is likely asleep 4 hours into the period. Therefore, the air carrier should assume that any attempts to contact the pilot during those periods of sleep would disturb the pilot. Perhaps, the pilot hears the repeated rings of the telephone but has chosen not to answer or is too disoriented from being roused from sleep to do so (there is no obligation to do so). Repeated attempts by the air carrier to contact the pilot during these hours would not be reasonable. While these "interruptions" do not meet the legal standard for breaking a continuous rest period as interpreted by the FAA (because contact has not been made), these circumstances do raise serious concerns about potential pilot fatigue and the possibility of a careless or reckless operation of the aircraft (i.e., by pilot and certificate holder) contrary to 14 CFR 3 91.13 (a).

 

[8vATE]

"One Call" was addressed in a letter from FAA Assistant Chief Counsel Donald Byrne on November 7, 2003, to Mr. James W. Johnson, Supervisory Attorney at ALPA. Here are the more pertinent paragraphs:


At the same time, however, an air carrier should consider the consequences of repeatedly trying to reach a pilot who is on rest (assuming the pilot has not explicitly provided the air carrier a "do not call" letter).

As i mentioned before... it is my belief the FAA backed off this "do not call letter" interpretation..

All the rest of the previous poster's info looks accurate..
Just don't expect to be able to submit a "do not call" letter..