FAA ATP General Requirements

[BoilerUP]

Sure some guys mature early, but some mature late (or never!).

I know a few guys at mid-life that fit the latter part of that statement to a T.

The younger adults could be safe, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

So..."age discrimination" against pilots 60 and over in the interest of safety is bad, but age discrimination for pilots under the age of 23 in the interest of safety is acceptable?

 

[JustaNumber]

So..."age discrimination" against pilots 60 and over in the interest of safety is bad, but age discrimination for pilots under the age of 23 in the interest of safety is acceptable?

No. Discrimination for discrimination's sake is bad. Discrimination based on actual safety data is good. A 12 year old and a 92 year old should not be in command of a transport category aircraft in revenue service. The debate apparently is over the matter of exactly where you draw the line. Until more accurate cognitive tests can be developed, arbitrary age limits based on scientifically determined averages is the best we can do.

 

[BoilerUP]

No. Discrimination for discrimination's sake is bad. Discrimination based on actual safety data is good. A 12 year old and a 92 year old should not be in command of a transport category aircraft in revenue service. The debate apparently is over the matter of exactly where you draw the line. Until more accurate cognitive tests can be developed, arbitrary age limits based on scientifically determined averages is the best we can do.

So...do you think pilots over the age of 60 should be allowed to continue "being in command of a transport category aircraft in revenue service" while pilots under the age of 23 (or 25) should not be allowed to be a SIC of the same airplane?

 

[JustaNumber]

So...do you think pilots over the age of 60 should be allowed to continue "being in command of a transport category aircraft in revenue service" while pilots under the age of 23 (or 25) should not be allowed to be a SIC of the same airplane?

I would answer that if I wanted to start a 25 page thread. All I will say is that evidence has not yet disproved the ability of the average 64 year old to safely act as PIC, but it has shown that (on average) a 21 year old is not as safe as a 25 year old, and thus I believe the average 21 year old should not be a 121 PIC. SIC is obviously a slightly different story, as his or her maturity is not as critical as that of the PIC.

 

[BoilerUP]

thus I believe the average 21 year old should not be a 121 PIC. SIC is obviously a slightly different story, as his or her maturity is not as critical as that of the PIC.

But a 21 year old can't be a 121 PIC right now anyway!

The whole issue is that you have to be 23 in order to hold an ATP, which currently is only required of captains. FARs might be changed requiring all airline pilots to hold an ATP, making 23 the defacto minimum age for employment in 121...and you've already said in post #5 that you think the minimum age for an ATP should be 25, not 23.

I'm sure you can understand my confusion about your position...

 

[BoilerUP]

I would answer that if I wanted to start a 25 page thread.

With an answer like that, can we assume the answer to the question would be "Yes"?

If so that's fine...you're entitled to your opinion just as much as those who would disagree with you are.

 

[JustaNumber]

I'm sure you can understand my confusion about your position...

My position:
Min age for 121 SIC: 21
Min age for 121 PIC: 25
Max age for 121 SIC/PIC: 65

I'm sure others have their opinion as well, which is fine if it's backed up by good evidence.

 

[BoilerUP]

My position:
Min age for 121 SIC: 21
Min age for 121 PIC: 25
Max age for 121 SIC/PIC: 65

I'm sure others have their opinion as well, which is fine if it's backed up by good evidence.

Thanks for that.

Do you think that the minimum age for an ATP should be dropped to 21, but that regs be revised so that one must be at least 25 before acting as PIC in a 121 operation?

 

[JustaNumber]

Do you think that the minimum age for an ATP should be dropped to 21, but that regs be revised so that one must be at least 25 before acting as PIC in a 121 operation?

That would be reasonable, and in fact preferable to the current 23 for PIC (and proposed 23 for SIC).

 

[Nevets]

Auto insurance companies have hard data on this that proves that under-25 drivers have much greater numbers of accidents. Note that when you turn 25, you get a substantial cut in your premiums.

Rental car companies as well!

Are there any regional airlines that have recently hired 18 or 19 year old FOs...maybe Great Lakes? What happens to these guys when they're required to obtain an ATP within 3 years, and they won't even be 23 yet?

The one person I know that fell in this category is that they are not eligible to bid for captain, in this case because of his age but he could have also been ineligible because of not having the time or the written, etc. So he had to wait.