F9 to be pay protected at WN rates?

[Porch]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

 

[climb2slow]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

well, if you look at the fact that Southwest has stated that a SLI deal between SWAPA and FAPA, then yes, FAPA has some say.

I have been somewhat vocal in my opinion about a deal that includes only 80% of the company and pilots. Recent talks have led me to believe that I should wait until the final deal is presented to make up my mind. There are some at SWA and a few at F9 that believe that the final deal will be for 100% of the operation. If it is less, than the judge may side with Republic.

I have always admired Southwest as a company and I have many friends that work there. I am reserving my opinion on the deal until there is actually a deal.

Either way, we will know much more by tomorrow evening I suspect.

 

[krewmeel]

The SWA/FO is dead on. Our management is not your friend until you are an employee of SWA (and then, sometimes not). They are ruthless and will not give you anything just to be nice. If they can structure the deal to draw down F9 and not hire you guys at all, they will. However, SWA wants labor's blessing (read SWAPA, not FAPA) and SWAPA wants you guys on the list, maybe even with no interview, no type rating, longevity, and pay protection. Good grief...we're trying to help you, and I'll even admit it's with our own personal motivations.

Don't doubt for a minute that SWA is serious and will win this deal. Their upped binding bid should tell you this. You should get RAH out of your mind and figure out how to get SWAPA's protection from SWA. A/M and B/M do not require employment. They only require a fair integration if there is one. You're in chapter 11. Your scope provisions are worthless if the judge says so. You could be bought and drawn down in less than 2 years with no seniority number and no interview. It stinks...I know. It's reality. You don't have to end up in this worst case scenario. Your union prez said worst case was a staple!? Not even close.

For the junior 2/3 of FAPA, don't let the senior 1/3 blow this for you!

Good luck,
shootr

I think you are generally correct in your statement, however, don't think that WN will win just because they are the highest bidder tomorrow. The judge is REQUIRED to take the highest and BEST bid. This includes what he believes is best for the the employees (read JOBS). WN will probably win, but don't count on us as your furlough fodder just yet.

 

[krewmeel]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

Yes. FAPA is an unsecured creditor. FAPA is on the unsecured creditors committee. FAPA has a vote, as well as the rest of the unsecured creditors, as to which offer to take. The judge is likely (but not required) to go with the wishes of the UCC and F9 managemet.

 

[firstthird]

there is nothing that would make me happier than for RAH to win this bid unless we get an agreement with FAPA before and not one that is a windfall. define that how you will.

 

[climb2slow]

there is nothing that would make me happier than for RAH to win this bid unless we get an agreement with FAPA before and not one that is a windfall. define that how you will.

I agree with you. The last thing any of us wants is a USair situation. I don't have any doubt that FAPA and SWAPA will be able to come to a mutually agreeable solution. 99 percent of the Frontier pilot group are not looking for a windfall or a fat paycheck. Just an end to the last 18 months of bancruptcy.

 

[Dude]

I am no BK expert, but I wouldn't think that a BK judge gives a %amn about anything exept making investors whole. The employees have given concessions but it seems that other creditors have a bigger stake here.

This is the unfortunate part of the BK process...........employees aren't made nearly as whole as the creditors.

Dude

 

[njcapt]

I think you are generally correct in your statement, however, don't think that WN will win just because they are the highest bidder tomorrow. The judge is REQUIRED to take the highest and BEST bid. This includes what he believes is best for the the employees (read JOBS). WN will probably win, but don't count on us as your furlough fodder just yet.

Uhhh, you're kidding, right? The interests of the employees don't even register a 1.0 on the bankruptcy judge's richter scale. Whichever deal is in the best interest of the "Entity" (read: what's left of the BK airline) and the secured creditors will prevail - period.

Yes. FAPA is an unsecured creditor. FAPA is on the unsecured creditors committee. FAPA has a vote, as well as the rest of the unsecured creditors, as to which offer to take. The judge is likely (but not required) to go with the wishes of the UCC and F9 managemet.

Your naivety is cute. ATA ALPA was a major unsecured creditor during their bankruptcy and we were told by Judge Lorch - point blank - that our interests were so far down the list of his priorities that they were almost irrelevant. We were told this during negotiations for the AirTran deal that would have seen about half the seniority list get furloughed and during the SWA deal that ultimately cost everyone their jobs. F9 management is not in charge of this anymore, either.

Look, I think this whole thing sucks. It's not fun reading and listening to others drooling over what was yours and insinuating that you should be happy with whatever you get after it's taken from you. I wish we had the opportunity to preserve jobs after ATA's trip through bankruptcy, but there was no place to get any traction. SWA wants what you currently have and I would angle toward aligning your interests and theirs.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Numbers/Statistics are a funny thing? I'll bet you'll be surprised with what scheduling can do in 12 hours. How may 12+ hour duty days have you had since the beginning of the year? Fly safe!

Agreed.

 

[vixin]

The F9 CA are not very bright. The were also getting pay protected on PRE-concessionary rates. I guess that extra strip is really worht it. Also F9 FO's welcome to the regionals as an FO for life. You do realize that when a CA seat opens in the Bus any RAH will be able to bid on that seat? Way to go FAPA, you just tossed the winning lottery ticket. The F9 guys didnt want a windfall....right!

 

[FlyinGuy]

If you really sit down and think about what the F9 guys are asking for it makes your head spin. They are acting like they are in the lead on this deal. They are asking for the "windfall" and acting like that is owed to them?

 

[shearedshaft]

No, they're hoping that they can take this to binding arbitration. That hope, unfortunately, is a fantasy. Binding arbitration is something that DAL/NWA and USAIR/AWA has proven must be avoided at all costs. DAL did it right, AWA did it wrong.

Frontier guys are going to be left holding their heads, explaining to their wives why it seemed like a good idea to give up a SWA career.