F9 -22.4M (Frontier)

[GuppyWN]

Bookingsareup.

How long have you been an airline pilot? And for whom? If you can't see the downside then I'll show you 100 pilots RIGHT NOW that will spell out, in no uncertain terms, how airline management history grows the cheaper per seat airline that morphs from "short hop" to 2.5 hour legs. It turns from "interstate Colorado" to MCI, OMA, ABQ and every other destination within 750 miles of Denver. Then comes the "sorry boys but the Q400 is where the money is so we selling our delivery slots for the Airbus and adding orders for the 400. There is a fair probability of pitting one group against the other - hence the separate seniority lists.

It's pretty obvious you're either naive or a management type which in either case your responses are understandable but if you're a wanna be career guy like the rest of us then I suggest you listen to some of the previous posts and keep asking questions.

Gup

p.s. I'm an ex F9er and Potter is no Sam Adams.

 

[TOGA]

Lear70, GuppyWN and CaptainOvers get it. Too bad you guys weren't around to vote on our TA.

 

[Bookingsareup]

It might not lead to pay cuts per say. If the regional affiliate is growing instead of it being mainline growth, then it reduces your career advancement at Frontier. Make sense?

Ask the Continental guys if they thought giving up scope so Continental Express could get a few RJ's was a good thing. Coex grew into a two headed monster. I'd be careful if I was at Frontier. Don't give away the store on a promise to protect jobs.

Frontier's growth has nothing directly to do with my career. Further, I don't think Frontier pilots gave away the "store" they got a D.C. plan that FedEx's MEC was impressed with.

 

[Captain Overs]

"AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs."

I haven't read the contract cover to cover. Nor do I know all that was or was not given up by the pilots. However, I do know that management wanted $40 million from the pilots and they got $4 million. And, the company quantifies their $4 million NOT mainly in pay but in the new work rules- which, according to my sources still rivel those of any peer carrier. How can Frontier call itself Colorado's hometown airline and only service Denver? The Q's bring feed which F9 needs. Just like most majors. Ever since F9 ordered the Airbus more than five years ago they have never canceled or deferred deliveries. In fact, they have added to them. The Q operation will feed the Busses and allow for mainline expansion and therefore I believe your statement "AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs." is incorrect.

Your missing the point. The example you gave above is good if you're a share holder in Frontier, not a pilot.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Bookingsareup.

How long have you been an airline pilot? And for whom? If you can't see the downside then I'll show you 100 pilots RIGHT NOW that will spell out, in no uncertain terms, how airline management history grows the cheaper per seat airline that morphs from "short hop" to 2.5 hour legs. It turns from "interstate Colorado" to MCI, OMA, ABQ and every other destination within 750 miles of Denver. Then comes the "sorry boys but the Q400 is where the money is so we selling our delivery slots for the Airbus and adding orders for the 400. There is a fair probability of pitting one group against the other - hence the separate seniority lists.

It's pretty obvious you're either naive or a management type which in either case your responses are understandable but if you're a wanna be career guy like the rest of us then I suggest you listen to some of the previous posts and keep asking questions.

Gup

p.s. I'm an ex F9er and Potter is no Sam Adams.

Pretty good stretch. I hope your statement makes you feel superior. I am not flying anyone's flag especially management's. I was mearly disagreeing with his statement.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Your missing the point. The example you gave above is good if you're a share holder in Frontier, not a pilot.

I don't think you understand what the F9 pilots actually achieved with their new contract. It was much more than the majority of its peers have been able to attain in the last six years.

 

[GuppyWN]

Feel Superior? For what? I'm simply giving you a little history lesson that has happened to many a good man in the past and is a very real possibility for F9.

Ask any legacy pilot if he thinks RJ's and T-props have taken flying from them.

Gup

 

[Captain Overs]

I don't think you understand what the F9 pilots actually achieved with their new contract. It was much more than the majority of its peers have been able to attain in the last six years.

I guess you're right. Dropping first year pay from the 50 dollar range to the 30 dollar range was looking out for future Frontier pilots. I'm glad you don't run the company.

In the past you might have attracted pilots because your first year pay was better than most other majors. Why would you do it now. You can go to CAL for 30 dollars and hour, or UPS.

I'm afraid by the time you wake up it'll be too late.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Feel Superior? For what? I'm simply giving you a little history lesson that has happened to many a good man in the past and is a very real possibility for F9.

Ask any legacy pilot if he thinks RJ's and T-props have taken flying from them.

Gup

Thank you for your concern. However, read my above post. I also point to Delta, N.W., UAL, and others who have given up hundreds of millions. F9 has been able to come away with a better contract than their last which is better than the hundreds who sold out at the afforementioned carriers of which one I am currently employed. I hope SWA pilots will attain similiar results with your contract when your time comes

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well, hmmm... let's see here. If the Q-400's aren't being operated by Frontier pilots (i.e. IF they were given up in the Scope section), that means the Frontier pilots signed an agreement that contained pay freezes at some points, pay CUTS at some points, AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs.

THAT would SUCK... unless you were the guy flying the Q-400 in the left seat.

No...even if you are flying that thing from the left seat it would still suck. Met one of their Captains jumpseating home a few weeks ago. Off the street guy with prior time in the original Dash 8 ,with Type Rating and prior PIC in the aircraft. His hourly rate? $50.00/hr!! That's less than Piedmont pays for the 100 and 300 series aircraft that they have.Oh,well......


PHXFLYR

 

[Bookingsareup]

I guess you're right. Dropping first year pay from the 50 dollar range to the 30 dollar range was looking out for future Frontier pilots. I'm glad you don't run the company.

In the past you might have attracted pilots because your first year pay was better than most other majors. Why would you do it now. You can go to CAL for 30 dollars and hour, or UPS.

I'm afraid by the time you wake up it'll be too late.

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

 

[rtmcfi]

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

Sooo, who are you a pilot for?

 

[Skyboy722]

However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it.

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

 

[Captain Overs]

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

I agree, however, I'm calling BS. He wouldn't be that dumb if he worked at one of the "other" carriers he claims to work for. N.W., Delta, United? Those pilots would understand what Guppy and I are talking about. Anyone who's been in this business, even for a short time, understands what we're trying to say.

I think he's a low time, or no pic time, pilot for F9. Or he's just flame baiting us.

 

[F9 Buff]

Anyone else figure out that Lynx isn't the enemy here but whoever is operating those RJs for the JetExpress operation is?

Lynx is just creating growth for mainline. Lynx will probably never fly a route that mainline would operate.

Frontier Jet Express on the other hand... They are going to have nearly as many of those 170s in DEN as Airbus, and unlike Lynx, they can, will, and are operating on routes that mainline has served.