F9 -22.4M (Frontier)

[Lear70]

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

MANAGEMENT TROLL ALERT!!

Yup. You are DEFINITELY not an airline pilot.

My guess is a management pilot who *maybe* has a CMEL certificate. No one would deliberately "screw their buddy" like you just DIRECTLY admitted having no compunction in doing.

F9 is flush with very LOW time applicants. Sure, they'll be able to fly the planes just fine, but all the experienced guys now have other carriers in mind.

You're still trying to claim that somehow the F9 contract was something to boast about. CA's took pay freezes, then pay cuts later in the contract duration. Future new-hires got screwed into a 40% pay cut. And did you say something about F9 getting a DC plan that FedEx is ENVIOUS of?

Did you really just fu*king say that? In seriousness?

Hmmm... yeah... those FedEx guys are really jealous, what with making more than 3 times as much throughout their careers then getting a Defined BENEFIT payout equal to approx 60% of their salary every year (which will still be more than the top CA scale of an active F9 employee). Yup. Those FedEx guys are just going in DROVES to Frontier. idiot.

F9 pilots didn't give up the farm, but they surely didn't help advance their own careers any.

 

[Bookingsareup]

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

look back on your company's history and you will find some concessionary deal. You have got to look past the day YOU were hired. If you had the option NOW to preserve and/ or enhance your current situation you would, and so would the majority of the pilots out there. The proof in in the voting.

 

[Bookingsareup]

MANAGEMENT TROLL ALERT!!

Yup. You are DEFINITELY not an airline pilot.

My guess is a management pilot who *maybe* has a CMEL certificate. No one would deliberately "screw their buddy" like you just DIRECTLY admitted having no compunction in doing.

F9 is flush with very LOW time applicants. Sure, they'll be able to fly the planes just fine, but all the experienced guys now have other carriers in mind.

You're still trying to claim that somehow the F9 contract was something to boast about. CA's took pay freezes, then pay cuts later in the contract duration. Future new-hires got screwed into a 40% pay cut. And did you say something about F9 getting a DC plan that FedEx is ENVIOUS of?

Did you really just fu*king say that? In seriousness?

Hmmm... yeah... those FedEx guys are really jealous, what with making more than 3 times as much throughout their careers then getting a Defined BENEFIT payout equal to approx 60% of their salary every year (which will still be more than the top CA scale of an active F9 employee). Yup. Those FedEx guys are just going in DROVES to Frontier. idiot.

F9 pilots didn't give up the farm, but they surely didn't help advance their own careers any.

I never said that FedEX pilots were ENVIOUS. Here is my quote."they got a D.C. plan that FedEx's MEC was impressed with." This was Frontier's first DC plan. I, as well as thousands of straight thinking pilots (INCLUDING FedEx's MEC) feel this is a fantastic step in the right direction. If you are going to attempt to have an intellectual conversation you have to at least be honest and, don't misquote so that you can argue points that YOU fabricate.

Further I simply stated the MAJORITY of F9's pilots position concerning first year pay.

I would put F9's contract up against my own, and probably yours too. There are, indeed areas that they need to work on however this is a sound contract.

Finally, relax and take the time to read my post in its entirety before you explode into a tirade again.

 

[Lear70]

Finally, relax and take the time to read my post in its entirety before you explode into a tirade again.

Tirade? You think that's a tirade?

Boy, you really must be living in a fishbowl... Glad the world is so cut and dry for you; must be nice not having to live in the real world that management types like you have created for the rest of us.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Tirade? You think that's a tirade?

Boy, you really must be living in a fishbowl... Glad the world is so cut and dry for you; must be nice not having to live in the real world that management types like you have created for the rest of us.

try to stick with me here. Try not to make this yet another personal attack thread. I have received 13 PM's supporting my statements, five of which disparage YOU. So, lets try to keep on topic and not go into the "People magazine" mentality. Many of us simply wish to DISCUSS important topics without the use of four letter words and hyper emotions. Ok?

 

[Lear70]

If your discussions were anywhere remotely accurate, you might have something there.

Otherwise, I call b.s. on the PM's, not to mention the people on this thread that have called you out on it. Suuurrrre you got 13 PM's in support. Easy claim to make since you don't have to back it up with those "facts" you were talking about.

And what was all that if not a personal attack on me right after you admonished me not to do the same?

Pot... meet kettle.

 

[Skyboy722]

look back on your company's history and you will find some concessionary deal. You have got to look past the day YOU were hired. If you had the option NOW to preserve and/ or enhance your current situation you would, and so would the majority of the pilots out there. The proof in in the voting.

Of course I would preserve/enhance my situation. But I wouldn't crucify those without a voice (those who haven't been hired yet) to do it. You're right, the proof is in the voting. I have voted this way in the past, and the pilots at my current company voted this way before I was hired. As a result, I enjoyed better pay and QOL as a new hire, and for that I am grateful to them. So there's your proof. The "majority of the pilots" at my company disagreed with you...

By the way, I am saying NOTHING about the F9 contract, as I know nothing about it, but am just responding to Booking's comment...

 

[Bookingsareup]

If your discussions were anywhere remotely accurate, you might have something there.

Otherwise, I call b.s. on the PM's, not to mention the people on this thread that have called you out on it. Suuurrrre you got 13 PM's in support. Easy claim to make since you don't have to back it up with those "facts" you were talking about.

And what was all that if not a personal attack on me right after you admonished me not to do the same?

Pot... meet kettle.

No, I never laid a personal attack against you, nor do I assume you are even a pilot.

 

[Lear70]

No, I never laid a personal attack against you, nor do I assume you are even a pilot.

Oh really?

I have received 13 PM's supporting my statements, five of which disparage YOU.

A personal attack, even an indirect one, is still a personal attack.

If you didn't mean it to disparage me, then you wouldn't have pointed that out at all.

Everyone here sees right through you, but no worries. Keep swimming...

 

[Blucher]

Anyone else figure out that Lynx isn't the enemy here but whoever is operating those RJs for the JetExpress operation is?

Lynx is just creating growth for mainline. Lynx will probably never fly a route that mainline would operate.

Frontier Jet Express on the other hand... They are going to have nearly as many of those 170s in DEN as Airbus, and unlike Lynx, they can, will, and are operating on routes that mainline has served.

This is partially correct. Sadly they are both "the enemy" of more pilot positions at F9. ALL of those aircraft should be flown by pilots on the F9 seniority list. Different pay scales, of course. Different seniority lists, NO WAY! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I am deeply saddened by this turn of events at F9. I wish all F9ers the best of luck, even those who were too foolish to vote against this.

-Blucher:bawling:

 

[rtmcfi]

I would put F9's contract up against my own

So, which airline are you a pilot for? I would love to compare your pilot contract to that of F9. You are a pilot right?

 

[Bookingsareup]

Oh really?


A personal attack, even an indirect one, is still a personal attack.

If you didn't mean it to disparage me, then you wouldn't have pointed that out at all.

Everyone here sees right through you, but no worries. Keep swimming...

That's a stretch. I maintain that I have never given you a personal attack.
But, you have managed to take this conversation off into some irrelevant direction. I believe I have made my point and you yours. If you ever wish to debate a point and use facts and accurate quotes, PM me and we'll meet or have a phone conversation.

 

[USMC319]

When pilots come on here and bad mouth others for voting one way or another on their contract I think they shoud STFU and worry about themselves and their own airline. Pilots vote for what suits their individual lives and what suits their families. Its not just about money or retirement or whatever. So relax. F9 has probably the best scheduling policy in the industry and thats more important than anything to many pilots, and comparing narrowbody contracts F9 still is well above average in most sections. Good day.

 

[Blucher]

USMC319,

Please don't take this too personally. Most of us love F9 and want to see it (and it's pilots) succeed. We have also been watching the industry for quite some time and have seen this exact scenario before. You are being set up by management to be 'whip-sawed' or worse. This is the 'new' way airline managements operate. I sincerely hope I'm wrong on this even though I know I'm not. Good luck and good day to you, sir.

-Blucher

 

[flythere]

So relax. F9 has probably the best scheduling policy in the industry and thats more important than anything to many pilots, and comparing narrowbody contracts F9 still is well above average in most sections. Good day.

Are you kidding me?? Scheduling is but one part of an all around good contract!! I can bet a lot of your co-workers don't share your opinion about that statement, particularly when it comes to compensation!! Looking at your screen name, I can only assume you are or where military?? Maybe you have a retirement or some sort of financial benifit from the military!

I too have a military background, but a lot of our peers don't have that added parachute. This is their only source of income, so they are very protective of their money. Not to mention those that have been through a few of these contract talks at other carriers, they know all too well what stunts management will pull to get a contract through. Management realizes they only need 51% of the vote to be a yes on a TA.

So when magement says this is a really good deal, be suspicious!! You only need to remember one thing, Jeff Potter is there to make money for the shareholders, that's his number one goal!!!!