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F/O flying on pax legs

AZ Typed

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Ace-of-the-Base said:
I'm sorry, this one is just so open.

Wasn't it a 121 crew on a deadhead in an RJ that just wanted to see how high it would go.

I really wish everyone would use facts to support their opinions.

Ace

Good Point. But still stupid don't you agree?
 

some_dude

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AZ, many of the issues you are describing are usually the result of someone being lazy and/or sloppy.

If *you* show that you are going to be professional, most pilots will start being more professional as well, if only so they don't look bad.

No takeoff data? Whose fault is that? If you are the PNF, *you* should compute it automatically, whether asked for or not. If you are the PF, *you* should ask for it. If the other pilot doesn't want to do it, tell them you are uncomfortable unless it is done. If they still refuse, do it yourself and start looking for another job after the trip.

No approach briefing? Obviously you are not the PF, or *you* would have given a briefing, right? So maybe you need to remind the PF? If something isn't covered in the briefing, ask a question.

You don't have to be self-righteous or a jerk about any of this. Simply act professional and lead by example.
 

Ace-of-the-Base

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AZ Typed said:
Good Point. But still stupid don't you agree?

No, not always. I fly a GV and we go to 470 / 490 all the time. If you are going to worry about something, why don't you try using science. How many accidents have been caused (or made worse) by being at 490 as opposed to 410? None! Stats can be very usefull, they make you not pull concerns out of your rear. Look at where most accidents happen, then focus your worries on making that phase of flight safer. Many times 490 could be SAFER than 410 (wx, traffic spacing, etc.) Everyone has the right to an opinion, I just like the ones that are backed up by facts.

Ps: I am also asuming (considering your concerns about rappid decompression) that you always have your mask on and sealed above 350, right?

Ace
 

cxcap

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i'm pretty sure that the airlines dont let the F/O fly while pax are on board. the F/O is mainly there to raise and lower the gear/flaps, talk on the radio, navigate, and basically do whatever else the captain orders him to do (get coffee, fill out paperwork, etc). if the FO is lucky he may get to fly the plane on a ferry flight if the captain lets him.
 

Sgt. Hartman

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cxcap said:
i'm pretty sure that the airlines dont let the F/O fly while pax are on board. the F/O is mainly there to raise and lower the gear/flaps, talk on the radio, navigate, and basically do whatever else the captain orders him to do (get coffee, fill out paperwork, etc). if the FO is lucky he may get to fly the plane on a ferry flight if the captain lets him.


LOL.....That oughtta attract some HEATED discussion :D
 

CarjCapt

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cxcap said:
i'm pretty sure that the airlines dont let the F/O fly while pax are on board. the F/O is mainly there to raise and lower the gear/flaps, talk on the radio, navigate, and basically do whatever else the captain orders him to do (get coffee, fill out paperwork, etc). if the FO is lucky he may get to fly the plane on a ferry flight if the captain lets him.

Absolute Flame Bait....cxcap obviously is from another world/planet/universe
 

100LL... Again!

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It mostly boils down to corporate culture and oversight.

A crappy 121 operator will have crappier pilots than a shipshape 135 operator.

That said, on average, most 121 operators are more rigidly administrated, so therefore the perception (and a fair perception it is) is that 121 pilots are safer.

The reality is that 121 pilots are not better, just more closely watched (on average).
 

AZ Typed

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Ace-of-the-Base said:
No, not always. I fly a GV and we go to 470 / 490 all the time. If you are going to worry about something, why don't you try using science. How many accidents have been caused (or made worse) by being at 490 as opposed to 410? None! Stats can be very usefull, they make you not pull concerns out of your rear. Look at where most accidents happen, then focus your worries on making that phase of flight safer. Many times 490 could be SAFER than 410 (wx, traffic spacing, etc.) Everyone has the right to an opinion, I just like the ones that are backed up by facts.

Ps: I am also asuming (considering your concerns about rappid decompression) that you always have your mask on and sealed above 350, right?

Ace

Do you always response with such candor? Fun to fly with too, I'll bet.

eeeesh
 

CaSyndrm

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cxcap said:
i'm pretty sure that the airlines dont let the F/O fly while pax are on board. the F/O is mainly there to raise and lower the gear/flaps, talk on the radio, navigate, and basically do whatever else the captain orders him to do (get coffee, fill out paperwork, etc). if the FO is lucky he may get to fly the plane on a ferry flight if the captain lets him.
Dumba$$
 

CaSyndrm

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English said:
And hey, AZ typed, I'm pretty sure I have more 121 experience that you (3 airlines). I've run into more cowboys at your elevated-status 121 carriers than I ever have at 135 operators.
I am one of those cowboys but am able to follow the rules at whatever company I work for and get along. This whole discussion is worthless if we all look at the experience levels of the people arguing. It's like the apples arguing with the oranges. Obviously the people that have flown more than a few years have no respect for the arguments in this thread and the others just don't get it.
 

Ace-of-the-Base

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AZ Typed said:
Do you always response with such candor? Fun to fly with too, I'll bet.

eeeesh

Oops, I forgot, this is supposed to be playful banter. My bad.

I will infer from your last post that you don't take any issue with mine. I really don't mean to be an a$$, I just worry that someone with less time than me or CAsyn might read one of these asinine posts and actually believe them. But now that I think of it, maybe all you guys should start flying down with the airliners so I can get more directs.

Ace
 

HawkerF/O

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CapnVegetto said:
490...why not? If it saves fuel, is a better ride? Give me one good reason why not? I hear Gulfstreams at 450 and 470 all the time. Please
explain to me what they are doing wrong.

Because at 490 if you loose the cabin you and everyone in the airplane is D E A D! And I know you don't sit the with your mask on. Let the cabin go at 490 and you'll never know it; your chin will hit your chest about the same time you go to reach for your quick don mask.
 

Publishers

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For the most part, we always operated as co-captains with equally qualified personnel and they changed seats with legs. That said, if we were using a contractor or an FO who was a captain in a smaller aircraft as F/O, then the captain was to fly the passenger legs and his discretion on deadhead legs.
 

CapnVegetto

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HawkerF/O said:
Because at 490 if you loose the cabin you and everyone in the airplane is D E A D! And I know you don't sit the with your mask on. Let the cabin go at 490 and you'll never know it; your chin will hit your chest about the same time you go to reach for your quick don mask.

Well, if your fuel tank catches on fire, then everyone in D E A D too. So should none of us fly airplanes that require fuel? We should all fly gliders!

You know, come to think of it, how many crashes have occured because people lost control of the airplane in IFR? New rule required, VFR FLIGHT ONLY IS ALLOWED!

The point is, this sort of thing goes on all the time, you can't outlaw driving because someone somewhere crashes, you can't outlaw golf if someone gets hit in the head with golf ball. That's just common sense. Ace has already said it, he's at 470 and 490 all the time. By your logic, he should be dead.

Just use a little sense man. It happens all the time, and it's OK.

Besides, I've never been above 450.
 

CaSyndrm

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HawkerF/O said:
Because at 490 if you loose the cabin you and everyone in the airplane is D E A D! And I know you don't sit the with your mask on. Let the cabin go at 490 and you'll never know it; your chin will hit your chest about the same time you go to reach for your quick don mask.
You obviously don't know why those altitudes are certified and what systems have been created to protect pax and crew if something does go wrong. I'm not being paid to be your instructor however so let's just say you are wrong.
 

AZ Typed

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I see why I've left aviation for the most part. This all reaffirms my choice to fly 135 here and there after years of abuse at all levels and this kinds of egotistical crap. It's impossible to have a worthwhile discussion on these boards.

AZT out
 

Ace-of-the-Base

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HawkerF/O said:
Because at 490 if you loose the cabin you and everyone in the airplane is D E A D! And I know you don't sit the with your mask on. Let the cabin go at 490 and you'll never know it; your chin will hit your chest about the same time you go to reach for your quick don mask.

OH MY GOD you're an idiot!

I really hope you're not a pilot because it would be an embarrassment to all the other ones out there who know their a$$ from a hole in the ground.

Don't reply. Just shut up and let the real pilots chat.

Ace
 

OleGuy

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cxcap said:
i'm pretty sure that the airlines dont let the F/O fly while pax are on board. the F/O is mainly there to raise and lower the gear/flaps, talk on the radio, navigate, and basically do whatever else the captain orders him to do (get coffee, fill out paperwork, etc). if the FO is lucky he may get to fly the plane on a ferry flight if the captain lets him.

You can tell cxcap's knowledge by his experience numbers. FYI most 121 pilots fly every other leg, depending on the Capt experience level. You would be surprised what you can learn from watching someone else's performance. And most of the 121 f/o's are in the right seat due to senority rather than ability.( 15-20 years there) And yes, they fly as smooth as anyone else.

As for this thread, I would not work for an operation that, after say 100 hrs, felt that I could not fly the aircraft as well as anyone else.
 
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