F-35C passed the Critical Design Review

[Dizel8]

Fly Navy!!

Beat Navy!

 

[bagasticks]

I think the navy should trade EVERYTHING but the boats in for predators. .and let AF do the manned flying. Then Topgun would become the largest RC fly-in ever! ! ! And we could get rid of that God-Forsaken Probe and Drogue abortion . . .Additionally once a year all the Naval Predator suqadrons could come out to nellis and be clubbed as baby seals. .

 

[DaveGriffin]

So...... we didn't have 'global strike' capability before the F-35???

Hmmmmmm........
Between F/A-18, A-6, the B-52 and B-2 just to name a few, I think we've been pretty well set in the area of land or sea based 'global strike' for quite a while.

It is the aircraft carrier that provides true 'global strike' for the US.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave, you really are an idiot...obviously proving nothing because that fact has already been previously stated many times.

1. There are no F-22's deployed to the middle east. There hasn't been. There won't be for the near future.

2. The CSAF came out with the mission statement that the F-22 will only do DEAD ("True" Global Strike - as you put it), and air to air (OCA and DCA). Since you're so wordly and learned on military affairs, I'm very surprised that you didn't know that.

Do tell Scrapdog!

My point was...Why not use our most advanced asset to help win the war? The unmatched look-down capability of the F-22 would be great for finding IEDs.

Oh that's right, the AF has determined the F-22 is not appropriate for the conflict.

 

[propsarebest]

It is the aircraft carrier that provides true 'global strike' for the US.

WRONG WRONG WRONG! Ya got it all wrong shipwreck!


The fact that the B2 (or the BUFF or the BONE for that matter) has flown from the CONUS to various bad parts of the world to drop JDAMs never happened???

 

[DaveGriffin]

WRONG WRONG WRONG! Ya got it all wrong shipwreck!


The fact that the B2 (or the BUFF or the BONE for that matter) has flown from the CONUS to various bad parts of the world to drop JDAMs never happened???

I'm talkin' true 'Global Stike'.

AF global strike capability may look good on PowerPoint at the Pentagon, but it is the Navy that has the actual capability to execute. While a B-2 driver is RTB and on his second piddle pack, SIG600 and his buddies have already landed and rearmed for the next dmpi’s. Being 300 nm from the target is good.

Plus, a CVN doesn’t have to worry about basing rights. True 'Global Stike' is all about location, location, location.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

WRONG WRONG WRONG! Ya got it all wrong shipwreck!


The fact that the B2 (or the BUFF or the BONE for that matter) has flown from the CONUS to various bad parts of the world to drop JDAMs never happened???

The AF boyz get medals and ascots to do those missions...

The Naval Aviators get.......to do it all over again...cause they can...

 

[SIG600]

You sound jealous Scrap Dog.

It is interesting to note that the AF is back to its old ways again. The recent comment by Gen. Keys complaining about using $50 MM dollar airplanes to look for $1K IEDs is typical of the AF culture. He wasn’t even hiding the fact that the AF doesn’t believe it belongs in a support role in COIN. The thought of a highly trained AF pilot in the world’s most advanced fighter, called in by a lowly squad of grunts on patrol, to look at a suspected IED placement, and then not even getting the chance to drop a bomb, is just too much for AF fighter jocks to deal with.

Now get back in your F-16, fire up the FLIR pod and run a few more IED patrols.

Dave... you fooking moron... it's Navy Prowlers that are doing most of the EM jamming for IEDs (thats now unclass and CNN has done a full expose') and Navy and Marine Hornets running our FLIR's looking for stuff. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the fvck up. Propsarebest, you're just as dumb with the statements you make.

Disclaimer, Dave is in no way representative of Naval Aviators actually wearing wings. He needs to curl up and die. Homo.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave... you fooking moron... it's Navy Prowlers that are doing most of the EM jamming for IEDs (thats now unclass and CNN has done a full expose') and Navy and Marine Hornets running our FLIR's looking for stuff. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the fvck up. Propsarebest, you're just as dumb with the statements you make.

Disclaimer, Dave is in no way representative of Naval Aviators actually wearing wings. He needs to curl up and die. Homo.

SIG600,

Sure, it’s the Navy and Marine Prowlers, Hornets and Harriers that are helping out their bros on the ground with the IEDs. That’s because the AF thinks it is unglamorous and unproductive work and doesn’t want to send its airplanes and pilots to help.

Since he bad guys always lose gunfights with the good guys, they have given up on direct action engagement and are essentially fighting the war with IEDs. Even though 75% of our casualties are the result of IEDs, not AK-47s or RPGs, the AF still doesn’t like the idea of committing its assets to help the grunts find an IED before it hurts someone.

A few weeks back here in Va Beach, Gen Keys, USAF, Commander, Air Combat Command gave a keynote address at the Transformation Warfare 07 conference, sponsored by the US Naval Institute. Gen Keys stated that using UAVs and airplanes with FLIR to find IEDs is a misuse of time and AF resources.

He is not interested in having his guys on call to ground commanders to help them evaluate suspect IED sites. He said it was a junkyard on the ground and the number of false positives was too high and he didn’t think the ground guys always needed the full motion video feeds they often requested.

The General said that ACC proposes another solution to IEDs. He wants an air centric concept of deployment. He wants the AF to go after the IED network, not the device after it is buried. That means he wants to drop bombs on the bad guys' support network prior to setting the IEDs, and not help our guys find the devices after they are set. While that is a good strategy, what went unstated was that under the new COIN doctrine, that is exactly what our ground troops are tasked. Under COIN the AF has been assigned a primarily support role.

Gen. Keys comments and ideas are typical of the AF mindset. Helping grunts if they find a suspected IED site isn’t sexy because the grunt ground commander is running the show and using the AF only for support. And the AF doesn’t get to make headlines and drop bombs.

 

[stonewall]

Jeez...FOUR months of not looking at FI and I come back to what? The first thing I see is "F-35" and "Dave Griffin" in the same line. Open the thread and see that nothing has changed.

DG still doesn't know anything about flying airplanes and Navy guys are still disavowing him.

FYI, Dave, there is not a SINGLE USAF pilot who thinks supporting troops on the ground is "beneath" him, and I'm stunned that you misinterpreted Key's remarks. Your expectation bias is showing, and I firmly believe you are being willfully ignorant.

And, Dave, before you squawk about the F-35 and CAS, it might help if you actually wait until the F-35 IOT&E is finished and it's IOC. You actually might be surprised at what you see. Or you can stick your fingers in your ears and chant "Warthog, Warthog, Warthog" til you pass out. Of course, it'll be all those ex-Hog drivers in the F-35, but what do THEY know about CAS, huh?

 

[McGillicutty]

SIG600,

Sure, it’s the Navy and Marine Prowlers, Hornets and Harriers that are helping out their bros on the ground with the IEDs. That’s because the AF thinks it is unglamorous and unproductive work and doesn’t want to send its airplanes and pilots to help.

Since he bad guys always lose gunfights with the good guys, they have given up on direct action engagement and are essentially fighting the war with IEDs. Even though 75% of our casualties are the result of IEDs, not AK-47s or RPGs, the AF still doesn’t like the idea of committing its assets to help the grunts find an IED before it hurts someone.

A few weeks back here in Va Beach, Gen Keys, USAF, Commander, Air Combat Command gave a keynote address at the Transformation Warfare 07 conference, sponsored by the US Naval Institute. Gen Keys stated that using UAVs and airplanes with FLIR to find IEDs is a misuse of time and AF resources.

He is not interested in having his guys on call to ground commanders to help them evaluate suspect IED sites. He said it was a junkyard on the ground and the number of false positives was too high and he didn’t think the ground guys always needed the full motion video feeds they often requested.

The General said that ACC proposes another solution to IEDs. He wants an air centric concept of deployment. He wants the AF to go after the IED network, not the device after it is buried. That means he wants to drop bombs on the bad guys' support network prior to setting the IEDs, and not help our guys find the devices after they are set. While that is a good strategy, what went unstated was that under the new COIN doctrine, that is exactly what our ground troops are tasked. Under COIN the AF has been assigned a primarily support role.

Gen. Keys comments and ideas are typical of the AF mindset. Helping grunts if they find a suspected IED site isn’t sexy because the grunt ground commander is running the show and using the AF only for support. And the AF doesn’t get to make headlines and drop bombs.

Spoken from someone who has never been deployed to OEF/OIF. Ask any JTAC, who has been to OEF, what he thinks are the three best CAS platforms and I'll bet you my ascot that a USN/USMC airplane won't make it into the list.

 

[SIG600]

JOr you can stick your fingers in your ears and chant "Warthog, Warthog, Warthog" til you pass out. Of course, it'll be all those ex-Hog drivers in the F-35, but what do THEY know about CAS, huh?

That was good for a laugh.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Jeez...FOUR months of not looking at FI

Why the Hiatus?

 

[DaveGriffin]

Jeez...FOUR months of not looking at FI and I come back to what? The first thing I see is "F-35" and "Dave Griffin" in the same line. Open the thread and see that nothing has changed.

DG still doesn't know anything about flying airplanes and Navy guys are still disavowing him.

FYI, Dave, there is not a SINGLE USAF pilot who thinks supporting troops on the ground is "beneath" him, and I'm stunned that you misinterpreted Key's remarks. Your expectation bias is showing, and I firmly believe you are being willfully ignorant.

And, Dave, before you squawk about the F-35 and CAS, it might help if you actually wait until the F-35 IOT&E is finished and it's IOC. You actually might be surprised at what you see. Or you can stick your fingers in your ears and chant "Warthog, Warthog, Warthog" til you pass out. Of course, it'll be all those ex-Hog drivers in the F-35, but what do THEY know about CAS, huh?

MAGNUM!!

I expect that the F-35 as a replacement for the A-10 will be kick-*ss. But some percentage of our future adversaries will focus on using lower technology, less expensive and effective weapons and tactics. Hog drivers are the best of the best, but once the get their expensive F-35s they can only do what their boss lets them do. Hopefully the technology of the F-35 will offset the AF Generals not being committed to putting a mucho expensive F-35 into an A-10 environment.

The AF unquestionably has the best platforms to support the grunts. It is the AF’s core commitment to supporting grunts that I question. The Generals are far more focused on protecting their budgets for what they view are more important strategic goals.

Tell me how you would explain Gen. Key’s comments other than complaining about having to support a non-air centric plan to defeat IEDs? His comments are consistent with the fact that the AF has to be dragged kicking and screaming into a team effort where they only provide support and do not control the show.

Now get out there and get to work. No gym or golf privileges for you until you find me some IEDs.

 

[thebest]

The AF is trying to eliminate the Navy??? Who's going to drive all those cool boats?

Coast Guard!