F-104 Starfighter or T-38

[WMUSIGPI]

That might have been about Lutz, the then chrysler CEO who was ex USMC and flew an L-39.

That could be. But I am sure they talked about someone flying the 104 also.

 

[414Flyer]

From what I understand, working with that airplane I am told, brought back some of the love of aviation for Greenameyer after he lost that B-29 that burned up on the glacier in Greenland I believe it was.

I think the F-104 saga of his, predates the B-29 story by quite a few years.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

From what I understand, working with that airplane I am told, brought back some of the love of aviation for Greenameyer after he lost that B-29 that burned up on the glacier in Greenland I believe it was.

I think the F-104 saga of his, predates the B-29 story by quite a few years.

The F-104 he used to break the records and eventually had to eject from, yes. Not the TF-104 he taught the couple at IWA to fly. That came after the B-29 incident in Greenland. He gave an interview covering that airplane and its story in his life in particular for something like the Wings Channel.

 

[414Flyer]

Oh okay..i thought you were mentioning the previous F-104 story. Wonder what his low level run came out to in Mach speed.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Oh okay..i thought you were mentioning the previous F-104 story. Wonder what his low level run came out to in Mach speed.

Hmmm, I don't know what it would be. Mach 1.5 maybe? Probably faster. I do remember him telling the story once and how, what his mind was seeing actually had occured a long time before it reached his brain. Something like a half a mile behind the airplane itself.

The low level runs were intended to break the Russian held records since the Air Force wasn't doing it with the SR-71. Funny, that whole thing sparked a lot of record breaking flights.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I just looked up the Magister and what a cool looking plane.Does anybody have any performance information on it?

Performance is slow and slower. Have you seen the cockpit? It was like the French tried for a record in how many gauges they could put on a panel. And you need three hands just to start an engine.

 

[Spooky 1]

Misiniformation

I loved watching and listening to that airplane. As a kid, I remember seeing a couple of them at Ontario, CA and I believe the Arizona Air Guard had them for a time. Awesome machine.



I wonder if that is equivilant sea level speed. Greenameyer set that record over a dry lakebed near Tonopah, NV. He took ten years building the plane in his garage in Van Nuys from spare parts he found wherever he could. Of course, flying it wasn't a real stretch for him because he was an SR-71 test pilot and had flown an F-104 previously. He took off from Tonopah airport with just 17 minutes of fuel on board, made two sweeps across the lakebed and returned on fumes. Speed, 1010 mph and 1020 mph per sweep.

The sponsor of his airplane at that time was Ed Browning of Red Baron Aviation in Idaho. Greenameyer could get all the parts but couldn't get an engine and the DOD was trying to keep him from getting that. Browning was able to "borrow" and engine from someone for the flights. When Greenameyer had that hydraulic failure and had to punch our of the his 104 over Mojave, the loss of that engine really hurt Browning financially.




The wing area is the same as that of a C-150/152. The couple that owned the one as IWA were both former Air Force pilots and Greenameyer was involved with them too. He was teaching them the airplane. I lived 5 miles away from IWA and hung out there a lot at the time. The last I saw of the airplane it was sans engine sitting on the North ramp of IWA, not in the quansett-hut style shade hangar it occupied when I would watch it fly.

I use to sit out there and watch them doing touch an goes. I remember the mechanic working on the airplane. Once when they taxiied it over to a remote part of the ramp, they "ran it up" so's to speak and the mechanic chuckled and said "That's the sound of MONEY!"

From what I understand, working with that airplane I am told, brought back some of the love of aviation for Greenameyer after he lost that B-29 that burned up on the glacier in Greenland I believe it was.

The engine in Greeamyer's F104 was borrowed from the Navy. J79 out of an F4. The fact is that Chuck Thornton's father was the CEO and founder of Litton Industries and their military point man, by the name of J. Ray Donohue arranged for the loaner. When the airplane was destroyed, Greenamyer owed the US Navy something around a mere $500,000 for the engine. A bargin in anybody's book. PS. He did not build it in his garage. The original airframe, minus wings was out of the Lockheed factory. It was a mockup that was painted in what ever colors and decals were appropriate for the visiting Generals who were considering the purcahse for their respective airforce use. None of the original rivets were spec and all had to be done over again. Don't recall where he found the wings, but beside the engine problem the other big issue was an ejection seat. That came out of a Puerto Rican ANG F104 in trade for an F86 airframe. The ANG at VNY had flown the F86, but never the F104 so when the F104 was brought to VNY for a static display, Greenamyer traded one whole F86 airframe for one F104 ejection seat. Pretty smart move considering what happened.

 

[Spooky 1]

Contact me

Anyone know, where I can buy a ride in one?

Thanks,

D8

PM me and I can put you in touch with the F104 guys that I know. May be some other ideas as well.

Spooky 1

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If you want climb perfomance, check out the KC-135R.

From a standing start on the runway, to any altitude, it will crush the T-38. About the only thing with better climb perfomance than a light-weight R model is the F-15 and fighters like it with a better than 1:1 thrust:weight ratio, or an orbital spacecraft launching.

I was at an airshow in GFK, and saw an R model do a high-speed, low pass. At the end it pitched up over 70 degrees and climbed out to 15K feet at that attitude.

Psycho!

CLiff
MMIO

 

[TonyC]

If you want climb perfomance, check out the KC-135R.

However, if you want a nice aileron roll/immelman/sliceback/loop/cuban 8/cloverleaf/lazy 8/barrel roll/split S combination...


Ooops... better check the area boundaries now!



The Talon's got all that and more... it only lacks the Spin Recovery!



I'd be thrilled to have a chance to ride in a F-104. I know a certain F-104 that has been rolled around the lawn quite a bit... of course, I wouldn't have any idea how it got on top of the hill or on the Parade Grounds or in the Dean's parking slot. It was just there when we woke up <wink> <wink>.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Area boundaries? No problem, I'm in my...oh, sh!t I'm half way into someone else's area! GD it! My head's on a swivel, looking for another -38. I'm going down to 10K in burner to get back where I'm supposed to be. I hope they don't spot it on radar-I'm way out there in one of the furthest areas, so I think I'm OK.

That is NOT happening again! If I'm every not 100% sure where I'm at, I'm going to break off my manuever and make sure!

Cliff
MMIO

I'll bet it's a lot easier with GPS now.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Pretty smart move considering what happened.

That's an understatement.

 

[Fury220]

However, if you want a nice aileron roll/immelman/sliceback/loop/cuban 8/cloverleaf/lazy 8/barrel roll/split S combination...


Ooops... better check the area boundaries now!



The Talon's got all that and more... it only lacks the Spin Recovery!

My favorite aerobatic set-up back in ENJJPT was the loop/cuban 8/immelman/split S...

...lather, rinse, repeat. Burnt about 1500# of gas each time I was solo just hittin those over and over. Of course, after about 20 minutes of that, you start to wonder which way is up/north/home

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I'm glad it wasn't just me!

Cliff
MMIO

 

[NookyBooky]

Give this dude a ring. He would probably have a better idea than any of us-at least as far as T-38s go.

http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=1030386