F-104 Starfighter or T-38

[Dizel8]

Anyone know, where I can buy a ride in one?

Thanks,

D8

 

[jarhead]

Several years ago there was a privately owned F-104 at the Oshkosh E.A.A. summer show. I saw the facts and figures on the hourly costs to fly that machine. I cant recall the number, but it was a very BIG number. You might want to contact the E.A.A. and see if they can give you a lead. I suspect you will need a really fat wallet for a ride though.

 

[bigD]

I know a place where you can buy a ride in the right seat of a 1900....

 

[EagleRJ]

F-104 = Dangerous Airplane.

Even Yeager is scared of them. There's a reason the Luftwaffe flew them and ended up suffering around a 60% attrition rate. It's the plane the term Widowmaker was coined for. I personally wouldn't set foot in one.

If you want to get your need for speed on, you could try either Incredible Adventures, which sells rides in MiG-29s, MiG-21s, and MiG-25s out of Zhukovski airfield near Moscow, or Wings over South Africa (I think that's what they're called). They sell rides in a BAC Lightning and some other stuff out of Cape Town.

I only know of one privately owned T-38. No idea if rides are available.

 

[airbrush]

www.classicjets.org

The only civilian operator of a T-38 is a guy named Chuck Thornton from somewhere in the LA area. I don't know if rides are available, but this organization should know.
As far as the F-104 (TF-104, if you want to go along), I've only seen a few in civilian hands. One, I think, is in the EAA collection, and I haven't heard of it flying since I saw it at Oshkosh back around '96. Another is with the Starfighters Airshow team (www.starfighters.net), and their website has a 2004 show schedule. I don't know if they give rides.
I'm sure you could get a ride in a L-39 or some other similar type, but that might be more "tame" than you are looking for. A friend of mine was a T-38 IP for three years and said it was a blast, (with a roll rate of 720 dgrees per second), but like most aircraft (and some women, I suppose) it could be lethal in a hurry if handled improperly. Be careful who you fly with!

Good luck.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

There used to be a private TF-104 at Williams Gateway in PHX. Don't know if it is still there though.

As said before, It is a very hot airplane.....Be careful who the PIC is. Stub wings don't lend themselves to low timer rich guys.

 

[Vector4fun]

F-104 = Dangerous Airplane.

Even Yeager is scared of them. There's a reason the Luftwaffe flew them and ended up suffering around a 60% attrition rate. It's the plane the term Widowmaker was coined for. I personally wouldn't set foot in one.

I used to work the NASA guys flying theirs. Used 'em for chase planes for a while. I think the German's problems were trying to make it an all-weather interceptor in a climate known for some pretty poor weather. IIRC the NASA guys told us Vref was like 170 + 10 kts for every 1000 lbs fuel. They would do 190-200 kts IAS down final inside the FAF. GS like 220 at the MM. Not something you'd like to do with 1200 rvr.........



All that said, why these two aircraft? Is he trying to get a Mach 1.1 ride? I rode the T-38. All that yankin and bankin just hurts at those speeds. 300 kts is fast enuf for fun...

 

[Dizel8]

The T-38, because all I have spoken with, say it is a great airplane and loads of fun.

The F-104 because I once sat on a beach as a kid, when two of those came screaming by in burner at 200 feet. It was unreal and one of the greatest things I have seen, not to mention heard!

 

[Vector4fun]

The T-38, because all I have spoken with, say it is a great airplane and loads of fun.

I was glad I did it once. Once was enough though! I did an hour and a half with the guys at Holoman AFB before they left and the AF stopped doing those things with controllers. My helmet did bounce off the canopy a few times, and I kept looking down to see where my seat cushion went. At 5.5gs, I swore I was sitting on bare metal! Didn't barf though!



The F-104 because I once sat on a beach as a kid, when two of those came screaming by in burner at 200 feet. It was unreal and one of the greatest things I have seen, not to mention heard! [/QUOTE]

They were that.

Here's another link. Don't know anything about the outfit, just seen the advertisement.

http://www.jetwarbird.com/



The wildest ride I ever saw was back during Iraq War #1. They were training hundreds of guys to operate Stingers. I got to go sit in the observer stands for the day and watch. This fellow in a NM Guard A-7 (Taco) was playing a very difficult to track target for the trainees with un-armed seekers, and he had some Sgt in the back for a "Fam" ride. I would NOT have wanted to be that poor NCO. It was wild and it was LOOOOooooowwww.

 

[Traumahawk]

I know a place where you can buy a ride in the right seat of a 1900....

Crackin' UP.

http://www.starfighters.net/

The F-104 is only dangerous if you don't know how to keep it above 180 over the fence ---Or, in Yeagers case, go for a high alititude record on a whim....

T-Hawk

 

[Ill Mitch]

Thought I would throw my 3 cents in on this old thread.

There are currently 3 operational F-104 in civilian hands. One is owned and operated by Mark Sherman in the Phoenix area. This is the former EAA bird. It is a TF-104. The other two are operated by the Starfighters team. They have one single seat and one two seater. There is currently an F-104A model under restoration in Wisconsin, I believe.

As for T-38's, there are something like 4 or 5 flying around in civil hands. Chuck Thornton operates at least two of them. He also offers training, but I don't know the costs. http://www.thorntonaircraft.com/


There are also about 8 MiG-21s flying around. You can fly one here.
http://www.mach2mig.com/

Then there are the two MiG-23s, but they are both single seat and then there is the operation that supposedly has a MiG-29, but don't know if it is flying yet.

As for the F-104 being dangerous, not really. Just takeoff fast, fly fast, and land fast and you will be ok.

 

[2000flyer]

I read where someone has restored a USAF F-4. Showed it at Sund and Fun this year. Talk about money to burn!

There is a guy/company at VNY who restores T38's (Thornton???). Don't know if he sells rides or not.

 

[Lead Sled]

I used to work the NASA guys flying theirs. Used 'em for chase planes for a while. I think the German's problems were trying to make it an all-weather interceptor in a climate known for some pretty poor weather. IIRC the NASA guys told us Vref was like 170 + 10 kts for every 1000 lbs fuel. They would do 190-200 kts IAS down final inside the FAF. GS like 220 at the MM. Not something you'd like to do with 1200 rvr...

Add to that the bottom firing ejection seat. I understand that more than one guy drove himself into the ground when he tried to eject. I would have loved to fly one, I've got some friends who have. They've got some good stories.

'Sled

 

[FN FAL]

There's also a guy at UIN that restores Mig 21's, if you're looking for something like that. I know the guy, he's airline and a super person. To find his website, do a www.google.com search with "kirlin mig 21"

If you can settle for a ride in a cheaper and slower Albatros L-39, this guy was linked on Kirlin's web page...maybe he has an answer as to where you can get a ride in an F-104 or T-38. http://www.aceshighlasvegas.com/

 

[psysicx]

Does anybody know what the cheapest classic jet cost.

 

[Ill Mitch]

Does anybody know what the cheapest classic jet cost.

My guess would be the Fouga Magister...that funky looking V-tail jet. I've seen them for around 50K, realatively inexenspive to operate, has centrifugal flow engines so you can toss quarters into the the inlet and watch them be spit out into your girlfriend's shins and make that high pitched dog whistle sound like the T-37.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I read where someone has restored a USAF F-4. Showed it at Sund and Fun this year. Talk about money to burn!

There is a guy/company at VNY who restores T38's (Thornton???). Don't know if he sells rides or not.

Collins Foundation has the F-4. Doesn't fly a whole heck of a lot. If you go to their website (do a search), they have some info on it. They kicked it off big the first year and flew it around a bunch, but now it pretty much sits around in TX.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Wasn't one of the automaker CEO's a 104 owner/pilot (retired AF guy that flew them and then bought one) Coulda swore I saw a show on Discovery Wings about the guy flying around Willow Run.
There was a Mig 15 based in Latrobe, PA but I think the owner moved the plane to Nevada this past fall.

 

[SIG600]

I read where someone has restored a USAF F-4. Showed it at Sund and Fun this year. Talk about money to burn!

There's not a person alive, except maybe Bill Gates, that could afford to operate an F-4. Never mind maintain one.

The F-4 at Sun N Fun was an Air Force Bird, on it's way to be turned into a drone to be shot down. I happen to know the pilot (whose the Commander of the 82nd ATRS) personally. They did have a nice air show paint job on it... that's for sure.

 

[jetdriven]

F-104 is the ultimate plane anhd has no equal. 252 MPH landing speed and Daryl Greenameyer set a speed record in his before he crashed it. it was something like 998 MPH at sea level.

to who asked what is the cheapest classic jet? If you ever ask that its too much.

 

[LearLove]

I think the guy (or guys) who flies the 104's for that starfighters outfit is on the scab list.

not to start anything just FYI.

 

[psysicx]

I just looked up the Magister and what a cool looking plane.Does anybody have any performance information on it?

 

[414Flyer]

F-104 = Dangerous Airplane.

Even Yeager is scared of them. There's a reason the Luftwaffe flew them and ended up suffering around a 60% attrition rate. It's the plane the term Widowmaker was coined for. I personally wouldn't set foot in one.

If you want to get your need for speed on, you could try either Incredible Adventures, which sells rides in MiG-29s, MiG-21s, and MiG-25s out of Zhukovski airfield near Moscow, or Wings over South Africa (I think that's what they're called). They sell rides in a BAC Lightning and some other stuff out of Cape Town.

I only know of one privately owned T-38. No idea if rides are available.

The reason the Luftwaffe had such high rates, was not as much about the airplane, but more how it was being operated. Other countries did not have such rates.

There was a privately owned blue T-38 when I was living in Wichita Falls, but I did not know anything about it or who owned it.

 

[414Flyer]

Wasn't one of the automaker CEO's a 104 owner/pilot (retired AF guy that flew them and then bought one) Coulda swore I saw a show on Discovery Wings about the guy flying around Willow Run.
There was a Mig 15 based in Latrobe, PA but I think the owner moved the plane to Nevada this past fall.

That might have been about Lutz, the then chrysler CEO who was ex USMC and flew an L-39.

 

[RJP]

The White Rocket (no longer white) is still one of the sexiest airplanes ever made. It was a blast to fly, rolled faster than anything in the sky and climbed like a mother**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**er in full blower.

That's where I'd put my money if I was you.

 

[coolyokeluke]

There's two F104's in Hillsboro OR. The two seater is being restored to flying status. They were purchased from Turkey. The same owner has a Mig15 that's been restored to flying status.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

The F-104 is only dangerous if you don't know how to keep it above 180 over the fence ---Or, in Yeagers case, go for a high alititude record on a whim....

The Right Stuff made it look like a joyride. But Yeagar I think was part of a program that was testing various kinds of control augmentation with jets at high altitude. Kind of like those they used on the X-15 and later on the space flights. Still, it was a cool sequence in the movie.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

The F-104 because I once sat on a beach as a kid, when two of those came screaming by in burner at 200 feet. It was unreal and one of the greatest things I have seen, not to mention heard!

I loved watching and listening to that airplane. As a kid, I remember seeing a couple of them at Ontario, CA and I believe the Arizona Air Guard had them for a time. Awesome machine.

F-104 is the ultimate plane anhd has no equal. 252 MPH landing speed and Daryl Greenameyer set a speed record in his before he crashed it. it was something like 998 MPH at sea level.

I wonder if that is equivilant sea level speed. Greenameyer set that record over a dry lakebed near Tonopah, NV. He took ten years building the plane in his garage in Van Nuys from spare parts he found wherever he could. Of course, flying it wasn't a real stretch for him because he was an SR-71 test pilot and had flown an F-104 previously. He took off from Tonopah airport with just 17 minutes of fuel on board, made two sweeps across the lakebed and returned on fumes. Speed, 1010 mph and 1020 mph per sweep.

The sponsor of his airplane at that time was Ed Browning of Red Baron Aviation in Idaho. Greenameyer could get all the parts but couldn't get an engine and the DOD was trying to keep him from getting that. Browning was able to "borrow" and engine from someone for the flights. When Greenameyer had that hydraulic failure and had to punch our of the his 104 over Mojave, the loss of that engine really hurt Browning financially.

There used to be a private TF-104 at Williams Gateway in PHX. Don't know if it is still there though.

As said before, It is a very hot airplane.....Be careful who the PIC is. Stub wings don't lend themselves to low timer rich guys.

The wing area is the same as that of a C-150/152. The couple that owned the one as IWA were both former Air Force pilots and Greenameyer was involved with them too. He was teaching them the airplane. I lived 5 miles away from IWA and hung out there a lot at the time. The last I saw of the airplane it was sans engine sitting on the North ramp of IWA, not in the quansett-hut style shade hangar it occupied when I would watch it fly.

I use to sit out there and watch them doing touch an goes. I remember the mechanic working on the airplane. Once when they taxiied it over to a remote part of the ramp, they "ran it up" so's to speak and the mechanic chuckled and said "That's the sound of MONEY!"

From what I understand, working with that airplane I am told, brought back some of the love of aviation for Greenameyer after he lost that B-29 that burned up on the glacier in Greenland I believe it was.

 

[bocefus]

"There's not a person alive, except maybe Bill Gates, that could afford to operate an F-4. Never mind maintain one."

As Ill Mitch posted, the Collings Foundation does in fact have a flying F4 and was doing the air show circuit with it. Steve Ritchie was the pilot and it was painted in the same colors as the the F4 he was flying when he bagged a Mig. I understand that they were giving rides in it for a "donation" and the Feds
didn't like the idea. I'm not sure what they are doing with it now.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/tx_f-4dphantom.htm

 

[EagleRJ]

The Right Stuff made it look like a joyride. But Yeagar I think was part of a program that was testing various kinds of control augmentation with jets at high altitude. Kind of like those they used on the X-15 and later on the space flights. Still, it was a cool sequence in the movie.

Correct- the plane Yeager crashed was an NF-104, which was modified with a reaction-control system and a 6000 pound thrust rocket engine in the tail. Yeager was on a test flight and decided to try for an altitude record as long as he was up there.
Flying the NF-104 involved making a supersonic climb in full burner until the engine flamed out, and then lighting the rocket engine and continuing up over 100,000'. The trouble was the F-104 had a serious problem with going into a deep stall, and going to full burner was the only way to recover. As he started to come over the top of the climb, the plane pitched up and went into a deep stall, and he used up all his thruster propellant trying to get the nose down. He wound up in a flat spin, and with the engine still out, he had no way to recover. He ran out of ideas and ejected just before impact, after spinning from 108,000'.
His account of the accident in his book makes it sound like definitely wasn't a joyride, but it did have the sound of an unplanned excursion from the test card.