F-104 Starfighter or T-38

[Ill Mitch]

Does anybody know what the cheapest classic jet cost.

My guess would be the Fouga Magister...that funky looking V-tail jet. I've seen them for around 50K, realatively inexenspive to operate, has centrifugal flow engines so you can toss quarters into the the inlet and watch them be spit out into your girlfriend's shins and make that high pitched dog whistle sound like the T-37.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I read where someone has restored a USAF F-4. Showed it at Sund and Fun this year. Talk about money to burn!

There is a guy/company at VNY who restores T38's (Thornton???). Don't know if he sells rides or not.

Collins Foundation has the F-4. Doesn't fly a whole heck of a lot. If you go to their website (do a search), they have some info on it. They kicked it off big the first year and flew it around a bunch, but now it pretty much sits around in TX.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Wasn't one of the automaker CEO's a 104 owner/pilot (retired AF guy that flew them and then bought one) Coulda swore I saw a show on Discovery Wings about the guy flying around Willow Run.
There was a Mig 15 based in Latrobe, PA but I think the owner moved the plane to Nevada this past fall.

 

[SIG600]

I read where someone has restored a USAF F-4. Showed it at Sund and Fun this year. Talk about money to burn!

There's not a person alive, except maybe Bill Gates, that could afford to operate an F-4. Never mind maintain one.

The F-4 at Sun N Fun was an Air Force Bird, on it's way to be turned into a drone to be shot down. I happen to know the pilot (whose the Commander of the 82nd ATRS) personally. They did have a nice air show paint job on it... that's for sure.

 

[jetdriven]

F-104 is the ultimate plane anhd has no equal. 252 MPH landing speed and Daryl Greenameyer set a speed record in his before he crashed it. it was something like 998 MPH at sea level.

to who asked what is the cheapest classic jet? If you ever ask that its too much.

 

[LearLove]

I think the guy (or guys) who flies the 104's for that starfighters outfit is on the scab list.

not to start anything just FYI.

 

[psysicx]

I just looked up the Magister and what a cool looking plane.Does anybody have any performance information on it?

 

[414Flyer]

F-104 = Dangerous Airplane.

Even Yeager is scared of them. There's a reason the Luftwaffe flew them and ended up suffering around a 60% attrition rate. It's the plane the term Widowmaker was coined for. I personally wouldn't set foot in one.

If you want to get your need for speed on, you could try either Incredible Adventures, which sells rides in MiG-29s, MiG-21s, and MiG-25s out of Zhukovski airfield near Moscow, or Wings over South Africa (I think that's what they're called). They sell rides in a BAC Lightning and some other stuff out of Cape Town.

I only know of one privately owned T-38. No idea if rides are available.

The reason the Luftwaffe had such high rates, was not as much about the airplane, but more how it was being operated. Other countries did not have such rates.

There was a privately owned blue T-38 when I was living in Wichita Falls, but I did not know anything about it or who owned it.

 

[414Flyer]

Wasn't one of the automaker CEO's a 104 owner/pilot (retired AF guy that flew them and then bought one) Coulda swore I saw a show on Discovery Wings about the guy flying around Willow Run.
There was a Mig 15 based in Latrobe, PA but I think the owner moved the plane to Nevada this past fall.

That might have been about Lutz, the then chrysler CEO who was ex USMC and flew an L-39.

 

[RJP]

The White Rocket (no longer white) is still one of the sexiest airplanes ever made. It was a blast to fly, rolled faster than anything in the sky and climbed like a mother**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**er in full blower.

That's where I'd put my money if I was you.

 

[coolyokeluke]

There's two F104's in Hillsboro OR. The two seater is being restored to flying status. They were purchased from Turkey. The same owner has a Mig15 that's been restored to flying status.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

The F-104 is only dangerous if you don't know how to keep it above 180 over the fence ---Or, in Yeagers case, go for a high alititude record on a whim....

The Right Stuff made it look like a joyride. But Yeagar I think was part of a program that was testing various kinds of control augmentation with jets at high altitude. Kind of like those they used on the X-15 and later on the space flights. Still, it was a cool sequence in the movie.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

The F-104 because I once sat on a beach as a kid, when two of those came screaming by in burner at 200 feet. It was unreal and one of the greatest things I have seen, not to mention heard!

I loved watching and listening to that airplane. As a kid, I remember seeing a couple of them at Ontario, CA and I believe the Arizona Air Guard had them for a time. Awesome machine.

F-104 is the ultimate plane anhd has no equal. 252 MPH landing speed and Daryl Greenameyer set a speed record in his before he crashed it. it was something like 998 MPH at sea level.

I wonder if that is equivilant sea level speed. Greenameyer set that record over a dry lakebed near Tonopah, NV. He took ten years building the plane in his garage in Van Nuys from spare parts he found wherever he could. Of course, flying it wasn't a real stretch for him because he was an SR-71 test pilot and had flown an F-104 previously. He took off from Tonopah airport with just 17 minutes of fuel on board, made two sweeps across the lakebed and returned on fumes. Speed, 1010 mph and 1020 mph per sweep.

The sponsor of his airplane at that time was Ed Browning of Red Baron Aviation in Idaho. Greenameyer could get all the parts but couldn't get an engine and the DOD was trying to keep him from getting that. Browning was able to "borrow" and engine from someone for the flights. When Greenameyer had that hydraulic failure and had to punch our of the his 104 over Mojave, the loss of that engine really hurt Browning financially.

There used to be a private TF-104 at Williams Gateway in PHX. Don't know if it is still there though.

As said before, It is a very hot airplane.....Be careful who the PIC is. Stub wings don't lend themselves to low timer rich guys.

The wing area is the same as that of a C-150/152. The couple that owned the one as IWA were both former Air Force pilots and Greenameyer was involved with them too. He was teaching them the airplane. I lived 5 miles away from IWA and hung out there a lot at the time. The last I saw of the airplane it was sans engine sitting on the North ramp of IWA, not in the quansett-hut style shade hangar it occupied when I would watch it fly.

I use to sit out there and watch them doing touch an goes. I remember the mechanic working on the airplane. Once when they taxiied it over to a remote part of the ramp, they "ran it up" so's to speak and the mechanic chuckled and said "That's the sound of MONEY!"

From what I understand, working with that airplane I am told, brought back some of the love of aviation for Greenameyer after he lost that B-29 that burned up on the glacier in Greenland I believe it was.

 

[bocefus]

"There's not a person alive, except maybe Bill Gates, that could afford to operate an F-4. Never mind maintain one."

As Ill Mitch posted, the Collings Foundation does in fact have a flying F4 and was doing the air show circuit with it. Steve Ritchie was the pilot and it was painted in the same colors as the the F4 he was flying when he bagged a Mig. I understand that they were giving rides in it for a "donation" and the Feds
didn't like the idea. I'm not sure what they are doing with it now.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/tx_f-4dphantom.htm

 

[EagleRJ]

The Right Stuff made it look like a joyride. But Yeagar I think was part of a program that was testing various kinds of control augmentation with jets at high altitude. Kind of like those they used on the X-15 and later on the space flights. Still, it was a cool sequence in the movie.

Correct- the plane Yeager crashed was an NF-104, which was modified with a reaction-control system and a 6000 pound thrust rocket engine in the tail. Yeager was on a test flight and decided to try for an altitude record as long as he was up there.
Flying the NF-104 involved making a supersonic climb in full burner until the engine flamed out, and then lighting the rocket engine and continuing up over 100,000'. The trouble was the F-104 had a serious problem with going into a deep stall, and going to full burner was the only way to recover. As he started to come over the top of the climb, the plane pitched up and went into a deep stall, and he used up all his thruster propellant trying to get the nose down. He wound up in a flat spin, and with the engine still out, he had no way to recover. He ran out of ideas and ejected just before impact, after spinning from 108,000'.
His account of the accident in his book makes it sound like definitely wasn't a joyride, but it did have the sound of an unplanned excursion from the test card.