ExpressJet Strike Vote

[FlyComAirJets]

If scope has become a deadlocked issue, is there any talk of reinstating the original 1990 era flow through?

 

[Prop Trash]

Originally posted by Fly Comair Jets...
If scope has become a deadlocked issue, is there any talk of reinstating the original 1990's era flow through?

Yes, there was talk of reinstating the flow-through early on in negotiations. There were a several XJT to CAL senarios the NC was looking at, some much better than the one we presently had. It was to be known as the Enhanced Flow Through (EFT). Threre was a lot of hype and high-hopes, with big ALPA flow-through posters in the crew rooms and endless threads on our own internet forum (known internally as "the crack-pipe"). It was essentially an issue between CAL management and the CAL NC. They [CAL management] bluntly said, "we're not interested." That was that. The EFT issue quietly died and hasn't been heard of since.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Is your negotiating committee afforded the same luxury? When presented with some proposal from management are they allowed to bluntly reply, 'we're not interested,' and then let it drop like a lead brick? Why would management be opposed to a flow through, didn't it work well in its original incarnation?

I ask because if they are not offering pay/work rule enhancements, scope, or a flow through, it does not sound like they are offering much. Which is the point of the strike vote, I guess.

 

[Prop Trash]

ComairJets,

I may have been a little vague in my explanation. The ExpressJet negotiating committee had to ask the Continental negotiating committee to propose the new flow through agreement to Continental management. That's like Mesa going to United and asking for a flow through agreement. The original flow through agreement was negotiated when Continental wholly owned what was then known as Continental Express. Now, Continental owns very little of what is now known as ExpressJet. Our managements [CAL and XJT] claim that they very rarely speak to one another. We have the same relationship with Continental as Air Wisconsin does with United.

Yes, the original flowthrough agreement worked very well. It was of little cost to Continental and it kept the average seniority at Express low, keeping costs down. The new FTA was going to be a hard sell, we all knew it...but it was worth a shot. Well, CAL wasn't even remotely interested so there was no need to press the issue.

I ask because if they are not offering pay/work rule enhancements, scope, or a flow through, it does not sound like they are offering much.

Actually, the terms that have been agreed to so far are very reasonable. Huge gains have been made in almost every section. Scope will be given, they have no choice since every other 50 seat jet operator has it. The only real sticking point is going to be the hourly compensation. While the W-2 wages will be higher than anyone elses, management won't commit to making one of the only things the investors look at to compare labor costs, the hourly pay. It's an ego thing for them [management] as much as it is an ego thing for us [the pilots]. That's going to be the reason for the strike vote.

 

[contract2002]

Huge gains have been made in almost every section.

Huge? ahem.... Please clarify this one.


[/QUOTE]Scope will be given, they have no choice since every other 50 seat jet operator has it. [/QUOTE]


Really? Are you sure?




[/QUOTE] While the W-2 wages will be higher than anyone elses, management won't commit to making one of the only things the investors look at to compare labor costs, the hourly pay. It's an ego thing for them [management] as much as it is an ego thing for us [the pilots]. That's going to be the reason for the strike vote.[/QUOTE]

You think that management doesn't want to pay #1 rates due to their ego? Boy do you have a lot to learn about business.


Where do you get all of this information from anyways?

 

[Britpilot]

Huge? ahem.... Please clarify this one.

Scope will be given, they have no choice since every other 50 seat jet operator has it. [/QUOTE]

Really? Are you sure?




[/QUOTE] While the W-2 wages will be higher than anyone elses, management won't commit to making one of the only things the investors look at to compare labor costs, the hourly pay. It's an ego thing for them [management] as much as it is an ego thing for us [the pilots]. That's going to be the reason for the strike vote.[/QUOTE] You think that management doesn't want to pay #1 rates due to their ego? Boy do you have a lot to learn about business.


Where do you get all of this information from anyways?[/QUOTE]
Seems he knows a lot more than you.

 

[Prop Trash]

Contract2002,

Go to union meetings. You'll hear this kind of stuff. They can tell you things in person that they can't by other mediums (for obvious reasons).

BTW, I love it when people tell me I have a lot to learn about business. It just shows how smart they really are.

 

[Britpilot]

There you go talking sense again "C". It won't work I tell ya, it's no good, makes too much sense, what do you know anyway?

 

[contract2002]

Seems he knows a lot more than you.

Please tell me about Skywest Airlines' Scope Protection, and while you're at it smart guy, I would also like to hear about Horizon's Scope protection. Or did they sell all of their 50 seat jets over the last 15 minutes?

Thanks alot for keeping the idiots informed on the industry.

 

[contract2002]

They can tell you things in person that they can't by other mediums (for obvious reasons).

What obvious reasons?

By telling you in person, they are leaving the communication up to you. Don't we have a committee or two responsible for this? This is how rumors get started, man.

 

[john Adams]

Skywest doesnt need scope, hell most dont even brush their teeth

 

[john Adams]

scope is a lack luster attempt to hamstring a company that gives you the privilage to fly for a living.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Skywest doesnt need scope, hell most dont even brush their teeth

John, John, John... Has the gout been flaring up again?... heaven knows that you don't use scope on gout.

How's Abigal's sore legs doing? They were up in the air for a long time when I was last in New York.


P.S. did you hear the one about the duel?


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[MJG]

a company that gives you the privilage to fly for a living.

You can't be serious with this comment, can you ??

Pass the bong while you're at it....

 

[john Adams]

How's Abigal's sore legs doing? They were up in the air for a long time when I was last in New York.


P.S. did you hear the one about the duel?


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

I go sign one piece of paper in Phili, and Abi is doing the lateral tango.


DUEL, young man you have no knowledge about duels

 

[Ben Franklin]

I go sign one piece of paper in Phili, and Abi is doing the lateral tango.


DUEL, young man you have no knowledge about duels

And you thought that my Richard was poor!


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[CEO silly sap]

scope is a lack luster attempt to hamstring a company that gives you the privilage to fly for a living.

This has to be the most childish comments ever posted

 

[CEO silly sap]

And you thought that my Richard was poor!


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Do you have nothing better to do than bog down a thread

 

[Prop Trash]

posted by Contract2002
Please tell me about Skywest Airlines' Scope Protection, and while you're at it smart guy, I would also like to hear about Horizon's Scope protection.

SkyWest is non-union so their negotiations aren't conducted under the Railway Labor Act and are not under the supervision of the National Mediation Board. We should only compare apples to apples here.

Even though the Horizon pilots are not represented by the Airline Pilots Association, they have a good scope clause. Is that what you want to know? I don't claim to know everything - why do you ask these questions?

And to answer your other question - What are the reasons NC can tell you things in person and not in print? It's called being "off the record." Even some of our negotiations take place like this. Being less formal can be more productive.

 

[contract2002]

SkyWest is non-union so their negotiations aren't conducted under the Railway Labor Act and are not under the supervision of the National Mediation Board. We should only compare apples to apples here.

Glad to hear that Skywest is safe from the whipsaw. Maybe I should have gotten hired there so that I would have job security for life. And my own planet when I die.

 

[contract2002]

Even though the Horizon pilots are not represented by the Airline Pilots Association, they have a good scope clause.

So their scope clause protects them from Alaska Air Group starting up another airline? If so, that is great for them. Maybe I should have gone there, but I smoke alot and I hear they are pretty firm about no smoke in the cockpit/workplace.

 

[contract2002]

It's called being "off the record." Even some of our negotiations take place like this.

If I gave a story to a news reporter and kept everything "off the record", there wouldn't be much of my side in the paper the next day. I hope that our negotiations are being conducted "FOR THE RECORD" so that we can get it in writing.

 

[Prop Trash]

posted by Contract2002
So their scope clause protects them from Alaska Air Group starting up another airline?

It protects the Horizon pilots from Horizon Air Industries, Inc. from starting another airline with pilots not on the Horizon Airlines seniority list, which is the same thing we at ExpressJet are asking for. Why do you keep asking questions about airlines that I don't even fly for? Do you just like to see me do useless research?

I hope that our negotiations are being conducted "FOR THE RECORD" so that we can get it in writing.

What's wrong with negotiating "off the record" "for the record?" Don't you remember what a big deal people were making when the NC was seen with management in a bar near the airport? All of the agreements will get written down the next day when everyone sobers up. [I'm joking, Neal.]

 

[Britpilot]

Seems he knows a lot more than you.

Please tell me about Skywest Airlines' Scope Protection, and while you're at it smart guy, I would also like to hear about Horizon's Scope protection. Or did they sell all of their 50 seat jets over the last 15 minutes?

Thanks alot for keeping the idiots informed on the industry.

My, my, some anger issues here, I think.
I would do as Mr. trash says and attend meetings, talk to Reps ect. Perhaps also a shrink for your issues.

 

[contract2002]

Perhaps also a shrink for your issues.

Can you refer me to yours? Sounds like everything is just ducky over on your end.

 

[Prop Trash]

Hopefully this thread is dead.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez - just curious for another outsider opinion - what should Mesa have done that Mesaba did?

FO

Brought a gun to knife fight. A strike is the ulitmate and best negotiating chip a union has.... Mesa never used the strike threat in real terms. I don't believe and neither did JO that Mesa would ever really strike.... Am I off base here? Any Mesa guys want to elaborate? Maybe AH?

 

[flap operator]

Rez - thanks - that's what I thought you meant. I like that a gun to a knife fight analogy! Too bad our MEC forgot the bullets.


FO

 

[Britpilot]

Can you refer me to yours? Sounds like everything is just ducky over on your end.

Certainly- Mr. Jack Daniels, if he is busy call Mr. John Walker.