ExpressJet Dilemma

[cynic]

Stop working for free.... That is the solution. Its actually not that complicated.

You see, when you took that job for 17K a year then somebody took the job. If you didn't take the job then something would have to change. I know, "If I didn't take the job some other guy would." Yes, you are that other guy.

I pee in your cheerois, rain on your parade, spit in your wopper and poop on your party.

Becuase you who took the job insured that I can not because you will work for far far less than I will.

So a big fat thanks a whole freakin lot.

You will respond with jerk, dick, couldn't cut it.... and I know thats because you don't have one reasonable response; because there isn't one...

 

[English]

Stop working for free.... That is the solution. Its actually not that complicated.

You see, when you took that job for 17K a year then somebody took the job. If you didn't take the job then something would have to change. I know, "If I didn't take the job some other guy would." Yes, you are that other guy.

I pee in your cheerois, rain on your parade, spit in your wopper and poop on your party.

Becuase you who took the job insured that I can not because you will work for far far less than I will.

So a big fat thanks a whole freakin lot.

You will respond with jerk, dick, couldn't cut it.... and I know thats because you don't have one reasonable response; because there isn't one...

I just have one question...then why did you work as a flight instructor? You see, when you took that job as a CFI then somebody took the job. If you didn't take the job then something would have to change. I know, "If I didn't take the job some other guy would." Yes, you are that other guy.

Just wondering.

 

[C-12Bubba]

Good Times.

Everybody pile on Cynic

Wanna stear this thread back towards something useful?

 

[BoilerUP]

COEX is the only offer I got. Not even an interview from ASA or Comair, but I think at this point the buddy system or an expensive academy gets you into those places.

By "buddy system", you mean networking right? And by "expensive academy", you mean a flow-through agreement, right? You may not be angry, but you sure seem bitter about those pilots who got hired because they "knew somebody" or went to a school with a hiring agreement. Don't be afraid to network, this business isn't what you know but WHO you know, much like any business these days. One would be naive to think otherwise.

I *sincerely* hope you make good money instructing, and do it for a long time. If it paid a good wage, I think I might be content doing it as a career. Its much like public school teaching - so very important yet so very undervalued. Hey, much like being a regional airline pilot...

Pay at EVERY regional sucks, some are worse than others. COEX pay rates currently stink, but hopefully they'll bring themselves up in a big way soon. I make $10.66/hr as a CFI, with no monthly pay guarantee. Why do you think people like me fight tooth-and-nail to get that 17K/year job at a regional? XJT is not the cause or the problem, this is an indictment of the whole dang system - but turning down a job ain't going to change that.


C-12Bubba, as FlyChicaga said, sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[LJDRVR]

C-12 Bubba,

You're really going to enjoy yourself. I just finished the six weeks of training, all I've got left is the LOFT, FAM ride and IOE. Everyone I encountered was fantastic. My first impressions of Express Jet being a first-class professional operation have been nothing but reinforced. Drop me a PM if can give you a heads up on anything, I'm having a blast.

 

[C-12Bubba]

Boiler, LJDRVR;

Thanks for getting us back on course.


DRVR;

How are those Upside down " W" yokes to fly with on the ERJ?

I've never flown glass, or a jet for that matter!

After just coming out of training, what was the best part (of trng), and what do you like most about the new
jet?

 

[MJG]

C-12 Bubba,


Definitely head for IAH if you can, that's where most of the growth will be. The difference between IAH and CLE is about 2 days off per seniority. In other words someone of my seniority in IAH holds on average another 2 days off a month than I do in CLE. So once you get off reserve that will be a big factor for commuting. EWR and CLE are pretty much at their growth limit just due to ATC saturation. They still have lots of sky down there in Texas. Well except when it storms which is like every other day in the summer. Plus I would think only having two time zone changes would be a little less tiring on the old body.

XJet it definitely a first class operation. Many of the small jet operators have really stepped up in these last couple years to become great operations. We use the latest technology, have a great safety program through ASAP and FOQA data and the training center is second to none. Welcome aboard. You're going to love it.

Just remember that we like everyone else have our "problem" areas. Luckily we're addressing most of them and eventually we'll get done what needs to get done.

My advice: study that damm audio panel. It's the hardest thing in the airplane to use, I swear.

 

[767200]

Stop working for free.... That is the solution. Its actually not that complicated.

You see, when you took that job for 17K a year then somebody took the job. If you didn't take the job then something would have to change. I know, "If I didn't take the job some other guy would." Yes, you are that other guy.

I pee in your cheerois, rain on your parade, spit in your wopper and poop on your party.

Becuase you who took the job insured that I can not because you will work for far far less than I will.

So a big fat thanks a whole freakin lot.

You will respond with jerk, dick, couldn't cut it.... and I know thats because you don't have one reasonable response; because there isn't one...

That's not the solution. If you get hired, take the job and then be PART of the solution by standing by your coworkers and get a better contract with better pay/benefits/etc. That's the attitude you should have, not rejecting an offer and blaming other people for taking a "low paying job". BTW I rather make 17k WITH full medical benefits, travel benefits, loss of license insurance, flying a nice airplane for a nice company like XJ or many other regionals rather than making a few more bucks(like you said) on an old beat up 152 with someone who's trying to kill you, no benefits, paying for a ticket to go on vacation(if you can afford it) and under part 91 which is the whore of all regulations, and not having anybody to back you up in case you screw up(we all do at some point).....see it's not only about $$$ but a few other things too......

 

[Nova]

How are those Upside down " W" yokes to fly with on the ERJ?

They are no different than any other yoke during flight but it can been limiting in a crosswind landing. The rams horn yoke requires a lifting action rather than the side-to-side rolling action found with a conventional yoke as you roll the aircraft. Imagine lifting a can of paint at arms length versus pushing that same can along a countertop and you get the basic action difference. It's just something you have to get use to. At the end of flying through a winter season with howling winds in the NE you'll build up those infrequently used muscles.

 

[C-12Bubba]

Nova;

THAT sounds very different! What's the crosswind limit on the -145? I imagine, with no leading edge devices, that you have to come in on final with a little heat--maybe that speed makes a difference?

Does a swept wing jet land any differently in a crosswind than a straight wing? (crab, or wing-down top rudder).



--Bubba

 

[Nova]

What's the crosswind limit on the -145?

30 knots. That limitation is for steady wind and not gusts so it's pretty forgiving.

I imagine, with no leading edge devices, that you have to come in on final with a little heat--maybe that speed makes a difference?

No traditional leading edge devices but the Embraer's have vortilons which are those 4 yellow painted "teeth" on the outboard leading edge of each wing. A poor man's LED.

Speeds aren't particularly fast. Talking to a CRJ captain ours are noticably slower especially when heavy. We fall between 125-130 knots for Vref and hold 5 knots faster than that on final with average weights. Low weights can get the you into the 110's for Vref which feels like you're hanging out there.

Does a swept wing jet land any differently in a crosswind than a straight wing? (crab, or wing-down top rudder).

You just don't slip a swept-wing jet. Hold the crab down final and kick it out as you transition to the flare with traditional crosswind techniques. The rams horn yoke will just require a bit more work in a left crosswind for the FO or right crosswind for the captain because of the lifting action.

 

[ATRCA]

UHH, for the record, IAH $ucks!!!

Why you ask?
1. Hat police
2. Too Hot
3. Too may dorks with boots on
4. Too many dorks wearing hats in the summer
5. Too many $hity TX overnights

EWR Rocks, but hey to each his own. Have fun dude.

 

[C-12Bubba]

Nova;


Awesome! I'll have to look up vortilons and see how they work. I saw them on a G-IV this morning at work, one of the reserve units in Hawii has them, and they park right outside my office. It started me thinking--> it must be for straightening the airflow on the wing at lower speeds, like a wing fence right? I mean, that's the whole premise behind the swing wing of a tomcat, F-111, Mig-23 etc... to be more efficient at lower speeds (otherwise the flow would be mostly spanwise, and not produce much lift). But since swept wings exist so that Mcrit is lower at high speeds, you need to have something to make that wing generate more lift at low speeds. Enter the leading edge devices: LE Flaps, slats, slots, LEXs, dog's teeth, vortex generators, or whatever. A prowler at whidbey, has a 40-50 knot difference in approach speed between a normal approach, and a no-flap, no slat, approach. Thinking out loud.
It shows that the Embraer engineers designed the wing of the ERJ pretty well. Those approach speeds are slower than the nasty old P-3, not too shabby! It'll be fun to see how it is to finally fly something that has swept wings, jet engines, and a glass cockpit. Giddy-up!

 

[Prop Trash]

originally posted by ATRCAUHH, for the record, IAH $ucks!!!
Why you ask?
1. Hat police
2. Too Hot
3. Too may dorks with boots on
4. Too many dorks wearing hats in the summer
5. Too many $hity TX overnights

EWR Rocks, but hey to each his own. Have fun dude.

1. Hat police? If you wear the dang hat in the winter like the FOM says to do, no one will bug you. I hate the hat as much as anyone else, but I wear it because the rules say to.

2. Too hot? So what...Newark is too cold in the winter.

3. Too many dorks with boots on. There are too many dorks in EWR who don't wear their hat when they are supposed to or wear sunglasses while they're walking through the terminal. How cool!!

4. Too many dorks wearing hats during the summer. I've seen just as many in CLE and EWR. Believe me, there are three, maybe four at best who wear hats year-round in IAH - out of over 1,000 pilots!

5. Too many $**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty Texas overnights. Of course you get all of the TX overnights, because all of the IAH crews are in the Northeast, out West, or down in Mexico. EWR and CLE crews get all of those $hitty overnights.

 

[Nova]

I'll have to look up vortilons and see how they work.

It started me thinking--> it must be for straightening the airflow on the wing at lower speeds, like a wing fence right?

Vortilons are used to shed vortices over the upper surface of the wing at high angles of attack but present minimal drag at cruise speeds. They were first developed for the DC-9-10 series so the technology has been around for quite a while. The only other aircraft that I'm aware that uses vortilons is the Long-EZ. You'd think with the simplicity and benefits that more would take advantage of them.

 

[embdrvr]

First year pay sucks at all the regionals.

3 to 4 years later you're in the left seat making 60-70K.

Is it worth it? You decide.

I'll take another paycut the first year at a major. Should I stay at a regional to avoid that paycut? (rhetorical question)

 

[boxjockey]

C-12


You're gonna love this place. Training was great. All of the captains I've flown with have been cool as sh!t, and so far even the reserve schedule hasn't been that bad. The contract crap will get sorted out sometime in the next decade, then hopefully things will be all good.

box

 

[DHPFLYN]

Are you paid during training? Also wondering how long the training last? What is the typical time you are on reserve? What is the upgrde time? When I talked to them I was told 3-4 years.


Thanks for any information

 

[hagen]

I'm 3.5 years and now holding a line in IAH..Things are starting to move pretty quick I believe upgrades went to 06/00 hires (Ewr based short bus captain) so maybe we will see something in the next year or so..I think I need to find my logbook first though......I put it away 3 years ago...Haven't seen it since...all those little books are starting to add up!!!


Those numbers might be right might be wrong. I really don't know and really really don't care...I'll spend my days in the sun having fun and drinking beer...

Ate' Logo e Boa Sorte!!!

 

[captxxx]

CoEx Commute

From iah or Hobby you have 2 non-stop options with COMainline or a long cab ride to Hobby
and the LUV(WN-Southwest)crew. Being that you would be junior, your trips would probably end
late p.m. which makes Newark the better option to commute with numerous late departures from
jfk/phl & newark (especially via las) to san diego. As well as reliable rail transit connecting bos,jfk,ewr,phl,bwi,dca
airports giving you numerous jumpseat options if ewr flights are full; trains connect to the terminals
of all airports mentioned and that includes the ACELA train(130mph)---much cheaper & nicer than a cab.
Finally, get a parking pass for lax which will back you up getting out of the west coast if san diego has
heavy loads or wx.( I think they are $15 a month-pretty reasonable; contact me if you need info getting it)
Good Luck & Best Advice get an American Express Skyguide monthly airline timetable.

 

[mmmdonut]

UHH, for the record, IAH $ucks!!!

Why you ask?
3. Too may dorks with boots on

LOL... no **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

 

[FSB99]

Vortilons are used to shed vortices over the upper surface of the wing at high angles of attack but present minimal drag at cruise speeds. They were first developed for the DC-9-10 series so the technology has been around for quite a while. The only other aircraft that I'm aware that uses vortilons is the Long-EZ. You'd think with the simplicity and benefits that more would take advantage of them.

so that's what they're for? i thought they were yard rakes.....

 

[Nova]

....or the rumored name given to them by a new hire years ago during his oral with Mr. A., "Beaumont Rakes." ouch.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Sorry, but back to Mr. Shortsightedness(Cynic)

Year 1: xjet:17k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.
Year 2: xjet:25k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.
Year 3: xjet:27k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.
Year 4: xjet:29k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.
Year 5: xjet:52k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.
Year 9: xjet:75k his (badass cfi job): a little more than 17k.

Wow, Cynic it looks like you made the right descision.... True, payrates need to come up at Xjet. Why are you "lowering" yourself to cfiing for $20 an hour? CFI's should be paid much more, but loosers like you practically cfi for free...

Works both ways doesn't it.....Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black....

 

[Paul R. Smith]

cynic

Your not a cfi are you? Your an Exjet pilot with a bad sense of humour. Admit it, your that "three-cup guy" i hear about from the FAs. I may bitch and moan about this company just as much as the next xjt pilot but when I hear from my old college buddies about the goings on at PDT, MSBA, I get a reality check and realize that its just the pay that sux. Oh yeah and (s)crew scheduling. Cheer up @ssh0le.

 

[FSB99]

Hey now.. no need to insult ol' 3-cup like that... he's a good guy.. just a little 'unique.'

 

[skootertrash]

Hey now.. no need to insult ol' 3-cup like that... he's a good guy.. just a little 'unique.'

Heck I would be too if someone walked into my prop!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

That’s just freakin great...

I’d like to personally thank you and every other working for peanuts pilot out there for taking the job. I had an interview and offer with Express Jet but turned it down. It looks like first year pay is maybe 18K. Add in the fact that you get paid nothing while in training and you might make 15K a year. Ahh yes, but then there is the $1.40 per-diem. So if you sit on the ground for 10 hours you get an extra $15.00.

Do you think you will be treated better later on; or have you just set a defacto standard for acceptable treatment and pay?

But hey, if you didn’t take that job somebody else would right? Or are you that guy?

Will you wine when you can’t get a decent paying job later on because there are none thanks to YOU?

Will you be surprised when you find yourself flying with idiots that are no fun to talk to all day because you get what you pay for with employees too?

I’m not angry… I enjoyed my brief stint as a professional pilot and I’d do it again. I am disappointed and I will laugh and laugh and laugh when you guys figure out what happened.

The majors will fly international routes only. (or did that already happen?)

There are fewer than a few hundred “Major” airline pilots that are ALL retired ex-military. (or did that already happen?)

The best you can hope for is 75K after 20 years and no retirement. (or did that already happen?)

With all due respect, just STFU.

The pay at ALL regional airlines sucks. ExpressJet is currently one of the few carriers negotiating to bring the standard up to where it should be. Did you do ANY research before you began your career?

KAK