Expressjet concessionary LOA/TA out

[cybourg10]

Yes, but what difference does it make? They'll still have the same CPA with CAL, which you claim makes it impossible for them to make money with your current contract, so what do you think you'll be able to accomplish in Section 6? Give more away? You've basically established a ceiling with these concessions, so you might as well just give up your right to Section 6 negotiations. What's the point?

That is an excellent point and that was my first thought when we heard we needed paycuts. How can we get back to our original pay (plus more?) in 2010 if we still have this same CPA? The answer is our rates will increase as the years move forward with this CPA plus more incentives for on time performance and fuel burn starting on July 09. We are basically at the lowest revenue point this year and these pay cuts will allow us to break even for a year and give our management a chance to re-structure the company (hopefully outside of ch 11/7) and make us a more efficient company. We are also hoping that charter continues to expand and that the industry will start to turn around in 12-18 months, giving us a chance to sign another CPA. Whether all that happens as planned is another story but I believe it is worth the shot. Or we could take your attitude and just say what is the point?

 

[Nevets]

Yes, but what difference does it make? They'll still have the same CPA with CAL, which you claim makes it impossible for them to make money with your current contract, so what do you think you'll be able to accomplish in Section 6? Give more away? You've basically established a ceiling with these concessions, so you might as well just give up your right to Section 6 negotiations. What's the point?

The point is that LOA9 gives us a better chance at getting to section 6 negotiations. Eighteen months is a long time away in airline time. The new cpa removes the most favored nation clause, the hub restrictions, and lowers the lease price of any aircraft XJT decides to use outside the CAL cpa. If XJT can weather this storm, they will be in great position to capture more flying. The point is to survive now and so that XJT is in existence to be able to prosper later.

 

[Turtlesfly]

Nevets

What you don't mention is that one reason why the pilots aren't too exicted about it (although I do think it will still pass) is because this isn't just a "weather the storm." 7 years is not "weathering the storm" - this is a new way of life forever. Furthermore, there is absolutely no give and take here, except for a phantom profit sharing which will never happen (can't happen - look at the numbers). This wasn't a "we can fix this for your paycuts. Nothing. Just "give us your money forever."

 

[Nevets]

Nevets

What you don't mention is that one reason why the pilots aren't too exicted about it (although I do think it will still pass) is because this isn't just a "weather the storm." 7 years is not "weathering the storm" - this is a new way of life forever. Furthermore, there is absolutely no give and take here, except for a phantom profit sharing which will never happen (can't happen - look at the numbers). This wasn't a "we can fix this for your paycuts. Nothing. Just "give us your money forever."

Well I thought I made a point that the new cpa removes the most favored nation clause, the hub restrictions, and lower lease rates for aircraft XJT uses outside the CAL cpa. This LOA is to break even on the CAL cpa so that the company stops bleeding the bank dry to the point of losing liquidity and forcing it into BK. Its just to get us through this economic downturn and position us for possible flying opportunities in the future. If XJT can see this through and get some additional flying, that is where the profit would come from and possibly trigger the profit sharing or snapback provisions.

Certainly, they could've asked for 50% cut and project to make $75M in profits but I think just giving them enough to get through the tough times and give the company an opportunity to exist so they can at least bid on new flying was the better way to go.

Sorry, if that point was made any clearer in my previous post.

 

[Popeye0537]

The point is that LOA9 gives us a better chance at getting to section 6 negotiations. Eighteen months is a long time away in airline time. The new cpa removes the most favored nation clause, the hub restrictions, and lowers the lease price of any aircraft XJT decides to use outside the CAL cpa. If XJT can weather this storm, they will be in great position to capture more flying. The point is to survive now and so that XJT is in existence to be able to prosper later.

Prosper with whom? Last time I looked no one was adding to the 50 seat market, and with no capital to speak of how are you going to purchase any new larger A/C.

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

If you guys take the projected 2.8% increasing to 6% cut there is no way your making more money than I am here at CHQ or the guys at Skywest. I made mabey 1%(on the 50 seat) less than you do now. Please explain your math.

 

[Nevets]

Prosper with whom? Last time I looked no one was adding to the 50 seat market, and with no capital to speak of how are you going to purchase any new larger A/C.

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

If you guys take the projected 2.8% increasing to 6% cut there is no way your making more money than I am here at CHQ or the guys at Skywest. I made mabey 1%(on the 50 seat) less than you do now. Please explain your math.

There will always be a market for 50 seat jets just like there are markets for 19, 30, and 70 seat turboprops. Remember people saying that were no market for them as well. Its not always about adding to the 50 seat market. Its about capturing as much of it as you can for yourself. Also, sometimes the financing comes from the mainline partner when it comes to new aircraft. That is precisely how XJT operates their jets and many other regionals as well.

Its a matter of surviving now so to at least have the chance on bidding on any future flying when the economy and airline industry turns around.

Certainly there have been others at the top. AWA was at the top before they had to give some away. Then Comair was at the top after their strike. XJT followed shortly afterward to exceed that. Now Comair had to give some back and XJT is there also. But if you actually look at the 50 seat rates, you'll see that even after the paycut, XJT will still be at the top of the industry for captains and in the top third for FOs. Keep in mind that its not all in the rates. XJT gets a 4% match in their 401k and a 2.5% retirement contribution as well as favorable vacation bidding rules, etc.

By the way, its a 2.83% cut and a freeze at that rate for one year. Then its a 2.06% raise Oct 1, 09 followed by a 3% raise Dec 1, 09.

I'll assume you are a three year FO at CHQ. At XJT, after the paycut, a three year FO will make $35.57. On Oct 1, 09 that same pilot will make $37.63 and on Dec 1, 09 he/she will make $38.76. A three year CHQ FO will make $36-$37. The three year Skywest pilot will make $37.10-$39.02. AWA, ASA, and SKW will make more than a three year XJT FO, taking the paycut into consideration, by at most $1-$2.

 

[cybourg10]

Prosper with whom? Last time I looked no one was adding to the 50 seat market, and with no capital to speak of how are you going to purchase any new larger A/C.

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

If you guys take the projected 2.8% increasing to 6% cut there is no way your making more money than I am here at CHQ or the guys at Skywest. I made mabey 1%(on the 50 seat) less than you do now. Please explain your math.

That is the truth. After the paycut XJT pilots will still be better paid than CHQ pilots on the 50 seat jet with better work rules such as pay protection for cancelled flights. I am sorry you don't believe it but that does not change the facts. I am not trying to imply that my airline is better than yours, I think those posts are idiotic, I am just stating the facts. Our union has come out with a revised pay scale in a power point put out by the union that compares all 50 seat jet payscales and XJT is still above CHQ. You never made mabye 1% less than XJT pilots as you stated. Hopefully you guys will top our pay here in the next contract as that helps everyone.

 

[djsk]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

 

[cybourg10]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

Do you even know what is going on? If you did you would know that oil prices have no effect on our revenue. Have you researched the situation or just saw paycuts and $77 oil and put two and two together?

 

[Nevets]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

CAL pays XJT a fixed block hour rate regardless of what they pay for fuel. And they pay for 100% of the fuel enplaned onto XJT aircraft.