Expressjet concessionary LOA/TA out

[Nevets]

Prosper with whom? Last time I looked no one was adding to the 50 seat market, and with no capital to speak of how are you going to purchase any new larger A/C.

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

If you guys take the projected 2.8% increasing to 6% cut there is no way your making more money than I am here at CHQ or the guys at Skywest. I made mabey 1%(on the 50 seat) less than you do now. Please explain your math.

There will always be a market for 50 seat jets just like there are markets for 19, 30, and 70 seat turboprops. Remember people saying that were no market for them as well. Its not always about adding to the 50 seat market. Its about capturing as much of it as you can for yourself. Also, sometimes the financing comes from the mainline partner when it comes to new aircraft. That is precisely how XJT operates their jets and many other regionals as well.

Its a matter of surviving now so to at least have the chance on bidding on any future flying when the economy and airline industry turns around.

Certainly there have been others at the top. AWA was at the top before they had to give some away. Then Comair was at the top after their strike. XJT followed shortly afterward to exceed that. Now Comair had to give some back and XJT is there also. But if you actually look at the 50 seat rates, you'll see that even after the paycut, XJT will still be at the top of the industry for captains and in the top third for FOs. Keep in mind that its not all in the rates. XJT gets a 4% match in their 401k and a 2.5% retirement contribution as well as favorable vacation bidding rules, etc.

By the way, its a 2.83% cut and a freeze at that rate for one year. Then its a 2.06% raise Oct 1, 09 followed by a 3% raise Dec 1, 09.

I'll assume you are a three year FO at CHQ. At XJT, after the paycut, a three year FO will make $35.57. On Oct 1, 09 that same pilot will make $37.63 and on Dec 1, 09 he/she will make $38.76. A three year CHQ FO will make $36-$37. The three year Skywest pilot will make $37.10-$39.02. AWA, ASA, and SKW will make more than a three year XJT FO, taking the paycut into consideration, by at most $1-$2.

 

[cybourg10]

Prosper with whom? Last time I looked no one was adding to the 50 seat market, and with no capital to speak of how are you going to purchase any new larger A/C.

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

If you guys take the projected 2.8% increasing to 6% cut there is no way your making more money than I am here at CHQ or the guys at Skywest. I made mabey 1%(on the 50 seat) less than you do now. Please explain your math.

That is the truth. After the paycut XJT pilots will still be better paid than CHQ pilots on the 50 seat jet with better work rules such as pay protection for cancelled flights. I am sorry you don't believe it but that does not change the facts. I am not trying to imply that my airline is better than yours, I think those posts are idiotic, I am just stating the facts. Our union has come out with a revised pay scale in a power point put out by the union that compares all 50 seat jet payscales and XJT is still above CHQ. You never made mabye 1% less than XJT pilots as you stated. Hopefully you guys will top our pay here in the next contract as that helps everyone.

 

[djsk]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

 

[cybourg10]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

Do you even know what is going on? If you did you would know that oil prices have no effect on our revenue. Have you researched the situation or just saw paycuts and $77 oil and put two and two together?

 

[Nevets]

With oil prices cut in half you guys better not take a pay cut.

CAL pays XJT a fixed block hour rate regardless of what they pay for fuel. And they pay for 100% of the fuel enplaned onto XJT aircraft.

 

[V1rowt8]

Do you even know what is going on? If you did you would know that oil prices have no effect on our revenue. Have you researched the situation or just saw paycuts and $77 oil and put two and two together?

Just curious Bourg. Is your total time really 1000 hours?

 

[cybourg10]

Ya it was over 3 years ago, would it invalidate my point if it was? I don't feel the need to update my FI profile with every new addition to my license or logbook.

 

[V1rowt8]

Ya it was over 3 years ago, would it invalidate my point if it was? I don't feel the need to update my FI profile with every new addition to my license or logbook.

No, IT does not invalidate your point.

 

[djsk]

Do you even know what is going on? If you did you would know that oil prices have no effect on our revenue. Have you researched the situation or just saw paycuts and $77 oil and put two and two together?

Sure I know what is going on:

Continental sees their fuel costs cut in half.

Continental can afford to pay more money to express.

Express can afford to pay their pilots more.

If express did a knee jerk contract they can just demand more $ because without those 200 ERJs continental is screwed.

 

[dojetdriver]

I feel for you guys really....don't take this personal but you were on top of the food chain by defalut. Comair, ASA stood in that #1 spot and now look where they are.

That's a good point, you could throw in ACA's rates at that time as well. One thing to remember, there was a tagline going around when contract 04 was being negotiated as to why the rates didn't match COMAIR's.

If I remember correctly, the response was something along the lines of this paraphrase; "they (COMAIR) are going to take pay cuts anyway. Also, the profit sharing in the contract will make up for the difference".

How f'ed up does that sound?

 

[cybourg10]

Sure I know what is going on:

Continental sees their fuel costs cut in half.

Continental can afford to pay more money to express.

Express can afford to pay their pilots more.

If express did a knee jerk contract they can just demand more $ because without those 200 ERJs continental is screwed.

Actually you don't. CAL hedge 20% I believe at $140 so their fuel cost have not been cut in half.

CAL just lost over $200 million in 2008 3rd quarter

ExpressJet has lost over $70 million this year and at the current rate is 3-6 months from bankruptcy

CAL owns the 200 ERJs and it is in our contract that if XJT goes chapter 11 or 7 CAL will take their planes back at a rate of about 10-15 a month and ship them to CHQ and SKW to less paid pilots.

Why would CAL renegotiate our CPA if they are getting the lowest 50 seat jet costs? That is not how business works.

What you claim you know is far from the facts.

 

[dojetdriver]

CAL owns the 200 ERJs and it is in our contract that if XJT goes chapter 11 or 7 CAL will take their planes back at a rate of about 10-15 a month and ship them to CHQ and SKW to less paid pilots.

What you claim you know is far from the facts.

I'm curious, did something change? I was always under the impression that CAL LEASES the ERJ's, THEN subleases them to XJT.

 

[cybourg10]

We do while we use them but if we go bankrupt CAL gets them back per the CPA, XJT is only leasing them from CAL.

 

[dojetdriver]

We do while we use them but if we go bankrupt CAL gets them back per the CPA, XJT is only leasing them from CAL.

Right. But that doesn't answer the original question of whether something has changed or not.

Does CAL OWN them, or just lease them?

CAL owns the 200 ERJs

In my time at XJT, I always heard CAL holds the leases on them, not owned them.

 

[cybourg10]

Yes CAL leases them and owns the leases on them. That is what I meant by CAL owns them.