ExAvantair People

[avbug]

Sure the airplane is a maintenance whore, but what can you expect from an airplane that was designed to fly 10 hours a month.

Setting aside the liklihood that merely posting in this thread may risk lowering one's intelligence quotient by several points...I've long been a proponent of the concept that a poor carpenter blames his tools.

I've had a look at the TCDS for the avanti, as well as the aircraft and component life limitations section of the maintenance manual, and I haven't found any place where that, or any other airplane, has been designed to operate 10 hours a month. If someone can back up that assertion (that gets bantied around a lot, for a number of different airplanes), I'd surely like to hear of it.

Fact is, an airplane is designed to perform to a given standard, and it's provided the continued airworthiness instructions to make that happen...w(h)eather it's used ten hours a month or several hundred...the condition of the aircraft is strictly the responsibility of the owner/operator. PERIOD.

I really hate hearing excuses such as the idea that the aircraft was designed to fly less, therefore acceptance of lesser maintenance is okay. A wise soul once opined that justification is the narcotic of the soul...the industry is awash with addicts.

The airworthiness issues are dear to my heart, as I've spent a lot of time close to airworthiness issues. Either the aircraft meets approved data and it's safe, or not. If not, then it's not airworthy, and no amount of justification will make it so.

If it meets approved data, and is safe, then you have no issues. Don't try to color the issue; it's fairly black and white.

 

[Autoparts2]

The new DO

Word on the street is that MYREALNAME is the new DO C.M lurking on this board. You might want to watch what is said because it may bite you in the end.

My 2 cents

 

[Takeoffroll]

The P180 needs no more or no less shop time than any other aircraft I have flown. My experience with the maintenance of this aircraft is no different than with other aircraft that I have flown. It doesn’t matter if its a C172 or a Learjet. Things break from time to time. Some times they fix themselves, some times they stay broken. It is always easier for maintenance to fix what stays broken. What professional pilot hasn't experienced these conditions. I back our maintenance guys on this. They do their best to get things done the right way. Pilots whining about maintenance is not new. And neither are disgruntled employees. I would say this thread has its share of both.

This thread reads like a bad conspiracy story. Personally, I think the DaVinci Code is a better story than this one. And it is more believable.

 

[avbug]

I couldn't care less were it the CEO, DO, DoM, Chief Bottle Washer, Head Lineboy, or King of Siam. I've never been particularly careful here or elsewhere in political matters; leave that to curtain climbing brass and yuppies. Call a spade a spade.

I have yet to see an airplane so poorly designed that it's meant only to fly ten hours a month. I have yet to see an aircraft that's limited to ten hours a month. I've yet to see an aircraft for which the manufacturer ever designed or intended only a ten hour a month useage.

I've heard from a number of your personnel this same excuse; "what can you expect from an aircraft that was only designed to fly a few hours a month?" Well, I'll tell you what you can expect. You can expect full airworthiness and performance, period, bar nothing. End of story.

If any of YOU expect anything LESS, then you're doing something very, very wrong. It either works, or it doesn't, period. If you are flying an aircraft which is not airworthy, if it isn't legal and safe, then you're in violation, and you're an idiot. Not to mention criminal.

If you're flying an aircraft that's legal and safe, then you have nothing about which to complain.

Either way, this isn't the forum to do it. Your company has channels within which to handle these issues. I don't believe for a minute that this is the place to whine, any more than a man should cry to those outside his marriage that his wife doesn't love him. What he should do is find a way to make himself a little more loveable, and if you're having internal problems in your company, then find a way to fix them internally. Coming here will do exactly squat for you.

Now this thread has been formed from sheer idiocy; it's made up of the bitter, the uninformed, the angry, and those who represent what at best is a fringe element to any operation. Most likely a number of the players aren't even employed there...some admit as much. Possibly one or more that have been fired or quit. If any of you fit in that category, then shut up already; you're free, you're out of there, let it go. You're going to have health problems if you keep up that level of consternation.

Regardless of your category, don't try to justify your acts by suggesting for one second that the aircraft is overutilized, and therefore one cannot expect or one can accept a lesser level of maintenance. If the aircraft flies more, then it will require more attention...however, it should never be in less than a fully airworthy condition. For those of you who are flying the line and crying about this, consider that both the first and last line of defense against flying an aircraft with issues is the PIC. If there's a problem in the cockpit or with the aircraft, then the person responsible for addressing this, and for refusing to fly it, is the PIC.

Don't blame the mechanic. Don't blame the company. If the aircraft is broken and you decide to fly it, then you have one person to blame. It's not the director of operations for your company, nor the CEO of the airframe manufacturer, nor the inspector who approved the fittings attached to your fuel controller. It's you. Don't justify, don't throw blame. If you accept it, it's all yours. If you can't accept it, then don't...but don't throw a fit about it. State the facts, handle it like a professional adult, and move on.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Word on the street is that MYREALNAME is the new DO C.M lurking on this board. You might want to watch what is said because it may bite you in the end.

My 2 cents

To my understanding, this new DO doesn't manage by fear, paranoia and micro-management as the former one did. Even if it is him, (which I doubt) he doesn't appear to subscribe to the same methods as before which means a new chapter is being written and the other one is gone. I've heard that this new DO is fair to crewmembers and is very approachable. This thread was started by mistruths and halftruths told as stories that have never been specifically stated or proven with fact. This tells me that they were B.S. from the start. All the positive threads to support Avantair prove that employees there are on the whole happy and enjoy working for the company. Those that bash the company are either bitter and misguided, after drinking koolaide that leaves them with a sour taste in their mouth. They've got the right to move on into an organization that is more in line with what they believe is right, and to leave the rest of the Avantair employees alone. The airplane appears to serve the company well, and the pilots appear to be happy and very defensive of the company. Those that post bitterly apparently don't really know what they are talking about, and should just GET OVER IT and move on!

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

To my understanding, this new DO doesn't manage by fear, paranoia and micro-management as the former one did. Even if it is him, (which I doubt) he doesn't appear to subscribe to the same methods as before which means a new chapter is being written and the other one is gone. I've heard that this new DO is fair to crewmembers and is very approachable. This thread was started by mistruths and halftruths told as stories that have never been specifically stated or proven with fact. This tells me that they were B.S. from the start. All the positive threads to support Avantair prove that employees there are on the whole happy and enjoy working for the company. Those that bash the company are either bitter and misguided, after drinking koolaide that leaves them with a sour taste in their mouth. They've got the right to move on into an organization that is more in line with what they believe is right, and to leave the rest of the Avantair employees alone. The airplane appears to serve the company well, and the pilots appear to be happy and very defensive of the company. Those that post bitterly apparently don't really know what they are talking about, and should just GET OVER IT and move on!

Interesting. I run into quite a few crews from Avantair and they all sing a different tune than you are. They are all very close mouthed, but they do mangage to convey the idea that they are just killing time until something better comes along. Mangagement that can't be trusted is a theme that keeps popping up....... maybe you're the one on the koolaid????

 

[hangarrat]

Mr. Pebbles is a reliable source - I would believe anything he says. yes I would, uh huh, sure nuf. He knows what he's talkin 'bout.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Mr. Pebbles is a reliable source - I would believe anything he says. yes I would, uh huh, sure nuf. He knows what he's talkin 'bout.

Were you drunk when you wrote this? Either that or you are a major hick.

 

[Syncit]

I think Mr Pebbles is Mr DO.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

I think Mr Pebbles is Mr DO.

Not quite. Did make me smile though to read that. No, if I were the DO, I wouldnt sleep at night for fear of losing my job as anyone who takes that job has 6-12 months left and I sleep fine.

 

[hangarrat]

Were you drunk when you wrote this? Either that or you are a major hick.

No mr. pebbles, i was not drunk and i am not a hick, i am mocking you with my comment. Since you seem a little slow, let me spell it out for you. You are not a reliable source of iformation. Your screen name, like mine i might point out, was created just this month. The difference between the two of us is that i dont take this website or this thread seriously. it is a joke. Just like you. From your name to your view point. Get a life.

 

[flyboy'sfriend]

Oh ye of little faith....

Dear MyrealnameisManagement/Owner,

Thanks for the emotional response, at least you're consistant in your over-reactive replies.

My comments were not directed at the skill or class level of Mechanics per say, just on how Mx issues are handled at AVair.

Can you spell Pencil Whip??????

You are about as sharp as a box of wrenches, you might want to adjust your blinders a little, seeing as you are oblivious to the Mx practices at your own company, or then maybe you just might be the owner/managment of AVair portraying himself as a line pilot and wouldn't ever omit that there is a problem if your life depended on it. (Too bad the ones who actually fly the airplaine, the pilot's/customers, lives depend on it.)

Regardless, I think the mechanics are able to do the work, it's just that the higher ups won't let them ground airplanes or give them the parts or time to do it. And if the FAA weren't falling all over themselves to court you right now, you might be in for some major violations, too bad they don't visit FlightInfo threads often enough.

And BTW Di*k Breath, I don't work for you.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

No mr. pebbles, i was not drunk and i am not a hick, i am mocking you with my comment. Since you seem a little slow, let me spell it out for you. You are not a reliable source of iformation. Your screen name, like mine i might point out, was created just this month. The difference between the two of us is that i dont take this website or this thread seriously. it is a joke. Just like you. From your name to your view point. Get a life.

Man, that worked out better than I thought. Ever hear of reverse pychology? I was joking when I asked if you were drunk or a hick because of the stupid way that you wrote. But your second post is just as bad. Misspelled words, incomplete sentences, etc. My, my, you're a real mess. PM me sometime, maybe my seven year daughter can give you English lessons.

As far as my information being reliable, what you think means nothing to me. What I posted was what I was told first hand through normal conversation. I've read these forums for years, just never signed up. But these Avantair threads just got too good to pass up. I've met enough pilots who work there or have worked there, not to mention a couple good friends, and it's easy to spot a bottom of the barrel operation. It's obvious that sh*t flows from the top down there. Alot of the shenanigans that go on there would not be tolerated if the place was run by people who had any sense of decency. But liars and dirtbags tend to pollute those around them. That's all. Plain and simple.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I've met enough pilots who work there or have worked there, not to mention a couple good friends, and it's easy to spot a bottom of the barrel operation. It's obvious that sh*t flows from the top down there. Alot of the shenanigans that go on there would not be tolerated if the place was run by people who had any sense of decency. But liars and dirtbags tend to pollute those around them. That's all. Plain and simple.

Pebbles, your quote is rather emotional considering you claim you don't have any direct ties to the company. Are you perhaps the original Spark the Potato? Are you still trying to get attention because of the lack of support on this thread? Can you show any fact that Avantair is anything less than a first class operation? No? I think the overwhelming support of Avantair on this thread shows that the only place the sh*t is flowing from is your fingertips on the keyboard.

 

[cjdriver]

Pay

Not to change the subject or anything, but what is PIC pay at Avantair?

 

[Noodles]

I could give several examples of how Avantair is less than a first class operation, especially when it comes to maintenance. Of course, if I do that, people will rat me out and I'll get fired.

You are allowed to have your own opinion here, as long as you keep it to yourself....

 

[citationsarejun]

same complainers. I have said this many times I bump into crews all the time, see them at hotels etc. I clearly have never meet the 3 complainers that dominate these posts. Everyone I have meet loves the company.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I could give several examples of how Avantair is less than a first class operation, especially when it comes to maintenance. Of course, if I do that, people will rat me out and I'll get fired.

You are allowed to have your own opinion here, as long as you keep it to yourself....

Give one specific example of ANY employee that was fired because they gave their honest opinion. Once again Noodles, just part of the rumor mill with no facts behind it. All opinions are valued, but don't expect rumor mill to produce or mirror reality.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Pebbles, your quote is rather emotional considering you claim you don't have any direct ties to the company. Are you perhaps the original Spark the Potato? Are you still trying to get attention because of the lack of support on this thread? Can you show any fact that Avantair is anything less than a first class operation? No? I think the overwhelming support of Avantair on this thread shows that the only place the sh*t is flowing from is your fingertips on the keyboard.

No emotion here, just saying what I think based on what I hear. Overwhelming support of Avantair on this thread????Half of the posts trash your MX and the one post warns people to be careful of the DO finding out identities. If things are so kosher, you guys wouldn't care what people said. The fact is, you guys are known for pencil-whipping- I know one of your mechanics and he even admitted that to me. And all you do is say that it's the same few people that complain. So what? It's the same few people that always defend you- and that isnt hard to do- it's simple for a select few in management to hold forth that your company is great. That leaves the rest of the masses who are afraid to even peep.

And one more thing- it's VERY transparent who you are- changing your name on this board didnt work, PiaggioP180.

 

[Noodles]

Give one specific example of ANY employee that was fired because they gave their honest opinion. Once again Noodles, just part of the rumor mill with no facts behind it. All opinions are valued, but don't expect rumor mill to produce or mirror reality.

I know 4 employees that were questionably fired in my opinion. I know 2 of them got it for expressing their views on things.

Also, as far as all the crews somebody else has met being happy, I have two possible solutions to that: 1) They are afraid to give an honet opinion about how they feel; 2) They haven't worked very many other places to have anything to compare it too, so they don't know what's out there that is better or worse.

Eventually, I may share some stories about some of the things that have happened here, but not right now.

 

[angryoneincher]

Give one specific example of ANY employee that was fired because they gave their honest opinion. Once again Noodles, just part of the rumor mill with no facts behind it. All opinions are valued, but don't expect rumor mill to produce or mirror reality.

Jeez, would you like a list? The only reason I'm not posting a list is because I wouldnt put a list of names out there in public on the internet. But I will talk to some of the people who got the shaft over bull********************, and if they don't mind, I'll post it to prove that YOU"RE full of sh it.

 

[cjdriver]

Where did most of the program managers/check pilots come from at Avantair? I've heard a lot of Flt Opts folks went to avantair, which could be good, could be bad.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Jeez, would you like a list? The only reason I'm not posting a list is because I wouldnt put a list of names out there in public on the internet. But I will talk to some of the people who got the shaft over bull********************, and if they don't mind, I'll post it to prove that YOU"RE full of sh it.

How many of these names are NOT tied to the former paranoid DO, JM? My guess is that they were either fired directly by JM or that rumors were started by him that caused their departure. The company has always been first class, but like any growing organization, some folks didn't fit. All I've heard is that nothing but good has happened with the new DO and employees are very happy. Still no specifics from anybody, only rumor and innuendo.

 

[angryoneincher]

How many of these names are NOT tied to the former paranoid DO, JM? My guess is that they were either fired directly by JM or that rumors were started by him that caused their departure. The company has always been first class, but like any growing organization, some folks didn't fit. All I've heard is that nothing but good has happened with the new DO and employees are very happy. Still no specifics from anybody, only rumor and innuendo.

Tied to the former D.O.? Don't forget- he left, he wasn't fired. And he left because he found out there were things going on behind his back that he didnt want his name tied to- unethical, illegal things. Whether or not anyone agrees with how he ran his department, it doesnt change the fact that he didn't want to be lumped in with the rest of the sleazeballs in upper management. Now all of a sudden he was paranoid and behind the bogus firings and all that crap??? God, you are getting desperate. And the way this company is run has nothing to do with people not fitting. It has to do with greedy management that can't stand anyone else having an opinion that messes with their broader plan, and that plan is to line their pockets as heavily as possible with no regard for anyone else, and then most likely selling out to the highest bidder .

 

[B19 Flyer]

Tied to the former D.O.? Don't forget- he left, he wasn't fired. And he left because he found out there were things going on behind his back that he didnt want his name tied to- unethical, illegal things. Whether or not anyone agrees with how he ran his department, it doesnt change the fact that he didn't want to be lumped in with the rest of the sleazeballs in upper management. Now all of a sudden he was paranoid and behind the bogus firings and all that crap??? God, you are getting desperate. And the way this company is run has nothing to do with people not fitting. It has to do with greedy management that can't stand anyone else having an opinion that messes with their broader plan, and that plan is to line their pockets as heavily as possible with no regard for anyone else, and then most likely selling out to the highest bidder .

Didn't answer the question...

How many of these names are NOT tied to the former paranoid DO, JM?

 

[angryoneincher]

Didn't answer the question...

How many of these names are NOT tied to the former paranoid DO, JM?

Doesnt matter, because he didn't fire anybody without the word from you know who, and you know darn well who I'm talking about- think " CEO that no one respects." Besides, if it was a paranoid D.O. firing people wrongfully, why didn't the company make things right after they figured out what was going on??? Your attempts to spin this are pathetic.

 

[citationsarejun]

ok i couldn't help it I met a crew yesterday at teterboro and asked them several questions about their overall happiness level at avantair. The pilot i spoke to has been there for two years and said maintanance does a great job. he said he would never leave the company that he was treated extremelly well and that the leadership at the top was very good. i asked him about flightinfo and he laughed and said that it is the same two or three people who either dont work at the company anymore or are just miserable individuals. Most of us in the industry end of socializing on the road. Like the pilots at shares the avantair pilots are very happy from what i see and hear. Noodles, Angryoneincher and their flightinfo created surnames (mr pebbles etc)should just move on if they in fact still work at Avantair. According to this pilot he stated Noodles was fired months ago for his bad behavior and still hasnt gotten over it. He said this individual has tried everything to get even with the company. His and angrys posts support that. Look if anyone is considering working at any company talk to the pilots who work there.

 

[Noodles]

I wouldn't beleive everything you're told, just like I wouldn't beleive everything I read here....

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

ok i couldn't help it I met a crew yesterday at teterboro and asked them several questions about their overall happiness level at avantair. The pilot i spoke to has been there for two years and said maintanance does a great job. he said he would never leave the company that he was treated extremelly well and that the leadership at the top was very good. i asked him about flightinfo and he laughed and said that it is the same two or three people who either dont work at the company anymore or are just miserable individuals. Most of us in the industry end of socializing on the road. Like the pilots at shares the avantair pilots are very happy from what i see and hear. Noodles, Angryoneincher and their flightinfo created surnames (mr pebbles etc)should just move on if they in fact still work at Avantair. According to this pilot he stated Noodles was fired months ago for his bad behavior and still hasnt gotten over it. He said this individual has tried everything to get even with the company. His and angrys posts support that. Look if anyone is considering working at any company talk to the pilots who work there.

If you're suggesting that Noodles and Angryoneincher are the same person as me, that's ridiculous to the point of being funny. I don't know if Noodles and AOI are the same, but I'm a whole separate entity. I dont care about any of this anyway, the only interest I have in this is what I mentioned in an earlier post and that was that I have a few friends that got F'ed over and some of the things I've heard on the street would make any intelligent person realize that this company puts on a false front.

As far as you're concerned, Citationsarejun, the fact that you claim to work for shares and take time to defend Avantair, when you do not seem to even know anyone well within the company, makes it seem that you're guilty of what you are accusing others of- misrepresenting yourself.

 

[flyboy'sfriend]

Right on Mr Pebbles, you are right about Citationsarejun, he's a poser.

Looking at his posts, he appears to be either Avair managment, a managment wannabe, or the elusive CEO you know who.

BTW, he's also not very perceptive in his summations of our fellow posters here.

Cheers:beer: