Everyone is ok

[NCFLYR]

JAC- United slides off runway



http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/26/wyoming.airliner/index.html

 

[waterski]

Link not working

 

[NCFLYR]

Done.... it worked.. then they pulled the info.... sorry not my fault... here ya go form another source

 

[On Your Six]

JAC- United slides off runway



http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/26/wyoming.airliner/index.html

Where, when and what type?

 

[NCFLYR]

KJAC

Airbus 320
2/25/08

 

[DTW320]

That IS a seriously slick runway in the winter...glad everyone's OK

 

[pilot error]

That IS a seriously slick runway in the winter...glad everyone's OK

the runway was in great condition yesterday, until night time. it was one of those deals where the snow was melt was flowing onto the runway, then froze over at night. across town the pavement was fine in some spots, ice rink in other spots.

 

[RedBelly]

If this had been SWA, the thread would have been 4 pages long by now.

 

[Morettis]

One of our pilots went in there a couple hours after they pulled it out and was told they touched down with about 2000 ft remaining by the FBO. But that's jut 3rd hand info

 

[BUDDHA145]

One of our pilots went in there a couple hours after they pulled it out and was told they touched down with about 2000 ft remaining by the FBO. But that's jut 3rd hand info

whats the unfactor landing distance on a A320??

I really find hard to belived the 2000 ft runway remaining!!! freaking idiots...not you Morettis but the FBO guy with the aviation doctors degree!!!

 

[GuppyWN]

They obviously screwed up. Probably landed too fast or too far down the runway.

Freaking cowboys.

Gup

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Anybody know what typically happens to the crew when something like this happens? I know it's a vague question on my part, but can the crew expect to get crucified or would an unknown amount of ice on the runway allow the pilots to continue their careers without any problems?

 

[goodgig]

I'm guessing they start with a drug test.

 

[Lear70]

Anybody know what typically happens to the crew when something like this happens? I know it's a vague question on my part, but can the crew expect to get crucified or would an unknown amount of ice on the runway allow the pilots to continue their careers without any problems?

This happened to a good friend of mine last year, still fighting to get his job back, not his fault, investigation proved a lot of lies told at the beginning.

First, it starts with the armchair quarterbacking. Guppy's probably kidding with the "Freakin Cowboys" comment, you never, EVER condemn someone else unless you witnessed it yourself or absolutely know for fact (AFTER the NTSB FINAL report is out).

Then, you're going to hear a bunch of stuff that tries to pin it on the pilots. We are ALWAYS the first in the blame chain, only cleared if, later, they have no choice but to clear you from the evidence.

Where the aircraft touched down is going to be a FACT... AFTER the CVR and FDR information is processed. How? Easily. The FDR records the aircraft's altitude, navaid information (including GPS/IRS data which is accurate to a couple feet on most modern aircraft), and the ILS data (if the approach was dialed in which, per SOP's, it should have been for backup info), then when the mains touched down (Weight On Wheels), spoiler activation, etc.

In my friend's accident, the airport manager SWORE and testified that the aircraft touched down 4,000 feet down the runway with only 2,000 feet remaining. The pictures from the airport cameras showing where the tire tracks began in the snow on the runway PLUS the aircraft's FDR showed that he crossed the fence at VRef+2 kts, 50 feet AGL, and touched down AT the Fixed Distance Marker. PERFECT touchdown, just NIL braking with no updated report from the airport manager.

Airport manager was trying to save his job, lied, got caught, and now faces criminal prosecution for lying to an accident investigator, thereby interfering with a federal investigation. Very stupid.

You'll see and hear a lot of 2nd-hand "my cousin is married to a United mechanic in DEN that said" information. Ignore it. 99% of it is wrong.

Usually the pilots are on leave WITH pay until the PRELIMINARY investigation report is out. If they're found culpable, the airline will immediately terminate them at that point.

If it was simply touching down past the Fixed Distance Marker (which might have been snow-covered and undiscernable), they may get their jobs back. If they REALLY screwed the pooch, they may not get their jobs back, but the union will try anyway (it's what you pay dues for).

If they did it with any type of extraneous conversation on the CVR or any type of indication that they were screwing around, they COULD be criminally prosecuted, although it's rare. Usually the Federal Government decides that ruining someone's career is enough of a punishment unless it's really egregious.

This is yet another reason why even joking about something is a BIG NO-NO under 10,000 feet. You never know when you're going to have a bad day, and your 2-second joke about the new junior F/A could cost you your career. STFU and fly the airplane.

In my friend's case (and I've spoken directly to quite a few of the people involved), he's going to get his job back, with back-pay, and his record cleared.

Sometimes you just have a bad day...

The best thing you can do in this circumstance is exactly what ALPA suggests. Don't talk to ANYONE. Not the cops. Not the ARFF guys. Not your passengers. Not even a "whoa, that was close". STFU.

As soon as your passengers have care (police, ARFF, etc), tell them you and your crew need medical attention. ALL of you. Gather your crew, keep them close, tell them to STFU, get in a car or an ambo and go to the hospital for "traumatic stress" issues.

This gets you away from the cops, the media, everyone, until the union and company personnel can get there and HELP you and your crew STFU. Make CERTAIN your union reps are there and you brief with them FIRST. They'll help you make sure you tell your story truthfully (don't lie) but keeping your explanation succinct and unincriminating.

The rest they can help with from there better than I can...

Hope that helped answer your question.

 

[Deerkiller]

I was skiing in JAC this past weekend. It was snowing so bad on Sunday(2/24) that all the flights were canceled. The snow was to continue through Monday. We ended up driving to SLC on Sunday to go home.

Disclaimer: This is not in any way a opinion on what happened. Just providing some wx info. I'm glad everyone is ok.