ETPs

[AIRMOTIVE]

Im curious to know the SOPs regarding ETPs. Do you guys enter these in the FMS via Lot/Longs? That being said, do you navigate to them? Do you put the ETPs into the lasertrack or third FMS to keep track of your position relative to the ETPs. What if you dont receive the clearance as it was filed, do you generate new ETPs? A rift has developed within our community of pilots soo... what do you do across the NAT or NOPAC, or anywhere else that requires an equal time point? Thanks in advance!

 

[Tgaug6300]

We use Arinc flight planning services and they provide detailed coordinates of the ETPs. IMHO I think loading these coordinates into the actual flight plan should be discouraged. Due to the complex calculations required to generate those points, they will rarely lie percisely on the assigned track. Loading an ETP into a flight plan could take the aircraft outside the allowable navigation area and cause a GNE.

What we do with a Universal FMS is: under DATA load ETPs as a Pilot Airports, then select Airports for display on the MFD.

With a Collins FMS, go to the DATABASE page, use DEFINE WPT to create a waypoint, then display the point by selecting IDX-FIX and enter the point name under REF.

Just my .02

 

[Spooky 2]

Im curious to know the SOPs regarding ETPs. Do you guys enter these in the FMS via Lot/Longs? That being said, do you navigate to them? Do you put the ETPs into the lasertrack or third FMS to keep track of your position relative to the ETPs. What if you dont receive the clearance as it was filed, do you generate new ETPs? A rift has developed within our community of pilots soo... what do you do across the NAT or NOPAC, or anywhere else that requires an equal time point? Thanks in advance!

Absolutey do not navigate to a ETP Lat/Long. In other words do not put it in the body of your flight plan and while this may be munitia at this hour, your clearance did not include or have anything to do with that ETP waypoint. If corporate aviation ever drags themselves in to FANS arena they will see that with ADS/CPLDC the controlling agency can see eaxctly where you are going just as if they wee looking over your shoulder in the cockpit. When they ask why you are navigating to some obscure wpt along your path as opposed to say 40N130W as in your flight clearance, your going to be writing long letters trying to explain your actions. Not unlike a GNE.

 

[Sammy]

in the primus epic u can input the long. of the ETP and the box will compute the lat. pt. where the long intercepts the flight plan in the FMS. u could then place that pt. in the FMS route. anyone see a problem with this method?

 

[Wiggums]

What if you dont receive the clearance as it was filed, do you generate new ETPs?

Do not enter your ETPs as waypoints.

Yes, do generate new ETPs if you get a reroute.

 

[SuperFLUF]

A common technique in the 121 carrier world is to "float" your ETP's and diversion airports after the active flight plan.

To do this you just create a discontinuity after the last fix on the legs page and enter the divert airport, ETP, divert airport...etc.

They will then appear on the MAP display as non-active waypoints as you fly by them.

 

[Spooky 2]

in the primus epic u can input the long. of the ETP and the box will compute the lat. pt. where the long intercepts the flight plan in the FMS. u could then place that pt. in the FMS route. anyone see a problem with this method?

Sammy as Wiggums says in the next post, do not use ETP waypoints as Active waypoints that you are navigating to. In my previous post I suggested that this was not a legal flight as you did not (I assume) file the flight plan that way, you just modified it without the benefit of a clearance. Big no no, especially in ADS operations. Also, and this is really splitting hairs but you are no longer flying a great circle route between say 130W and 140W when you have put a ETP waypoint that while it appear to fall on you exact flight plan track, it none the less ever so slightly modifies it.

I know of now International Ops training organization that would embrace this concept of flying to a ETP waypoint.

The other post that refers to Part 121 ops is unique to the B767/757 PIP/Pegasus FMS although it may be applicable to others as well, but in the example used the ETP waypoints are never active waypoints for all the reasons I just mentioned.

 

[TransMach]

Another important factor to think about is "just what is an ETP ... an Equal Time Point". The only time that a highly defined (read accurate to all actual conditions) ETP is important is when fuel on arrival at the diversionary airport is schossche (read minimal).

If you've got baggs of gas onboard, the highly defined ETP is an exercise and nothing more.

With lots-a-fuel (my favorite) should something happen you should look at the problem and determine your best option ... play your card ... and go where want and can!

Spooky2 ... chime in here if you like ...

ETP's are only an advisory point, not a regulatory point, all depending on fuel state. You can and should do what is right for your flight should a diversionary/contingency requirement present itself.

ETP's ARE NOT A PART OF YOUR FLIGHT PLAN ROUTE!

TransMach

 

[maximizer]

We simply plot them on a chart and are aware of our position relative to an ETP. Simple.

 

[Tgaug6300]

WOW! For once there is a thread in which everyone agrees on something, with no personal attacks! I think we are all unanimous here. Do not put your ETPs in the box as a waypoint.