ETPs

[Spooky 2]

Do not enter your ETPs as waypoints.

Yes, do generate new ETPs if you get a reroute.

Generally you would not have to build new ETP's if your reroute was only 1 degree off your original course, which is pretty typical for a reroute on say the NA. There are several ways to generate new ETP's for reroutes further than one degree but I suspect most reading this simply call up there flight plan provider and go from there. Ah, for the old days when the real navigator working in his little dark hooch in the rear of the cockpit would refigure these points. Note that I did not say recompute!

 

[AIRMOTIVE]

Great feedback guys. I appreciate all the points made. I will share this with the dissidents.

 

[OldManPilot]

If you can enter the ETP as a "Floating" waypoint then that is the way to go. It does not provide an actualy point as far as a let to navagate to, but allows you to visually see when you have passed your ETP.
Try it! On you FMS after the VERY LAST waypoint on your flight plan (usually a runway, or airport VOR), put in the ETP then creat a dicontinuety between the ETP and last waypoint. This will allow the ETP Lat/Lot to show on the screen.

 

[Spooky 2]

If you can enter the ETP as a "Floating" waypoint then that is the way to go. It does not provide an actualy point as far as a let to navagate to, but allows you to visually see when you have passed your ETP.
Try it! On you FMS after the VERY LAST waypoint on your flight plan (usually a runway, or airport VOR), put in the ETP then creat a dicontinuety between the ETP and last waypoint. This will allow the ETP Lat/Lot to show on the screen.

I think what Old man is saying is that the ETP Lat/Lon coordinates should be after the last wpt in the missed approach for whatever procedure your using? Again this I think is unique to Boeing FMS protocols and might not work on some of the other FMS products out there even though they might be Honeyell products. IF you have the enhanced FIX page that Hoeney offers on some Boeing products lines, then you you can put the Lat/Long directly on the Fix page but not many airlines have opted for this feature. The original MD11 FMS, (non Pegasus) would allow you to build and name a "defined waypoint" using Lat/Long and thus you could put that identifier, what ever you wanted to call it, on the Fix page. The original MD11 FMS was Airbus driven technology so maybe other Airbus products fling around out there today will allow the "defined wpt." solution?

 

[Spooky 2]

If you can enter the ETP as a "Floating" waypoint then that is the way to go. It does not provide an actualy point as far as a let to navagate to, but allows you to visually see when you have passed your ETP.
Try it! On you FMS after the VERY LAST waypoint on your flight plan (usually a runway, or airport VOR), put in the ETP then creat a dicontinuety between the ETP and last waypoint. This will allow the ETP Lat/Lot to show on the screen.

I think what Old man is saying is that the ETP Lat/Lon coordinates should be after the last wpt in the missed approach for whatever procedure your using? Again this I think is unique to Boeing FMS protocols and might not work on some of the other FMS products out there even though they might be Honeyell products. IF you have the enhanced FIX page that Hoeney offers on some Boeing products lines, then you you can put the Lat/Long directly on the Fix page but not many airlines have opted for this feature. The original MD11 FMS, (non Pegasus) would allow you to build and name a "defined waypoint" using Lat/Long and thus you could put that identifier, what ever you wanted to call it, on the Fix page. The original MD11 FMS was Airbus driven technology so maybe other Airbus products fling around out there today will allow the "defined wpt." solution?

 

[Wiggums]

Here is a good one, encountered some guys operating Part 91 that are not calculating ETPs. They claim if they have a contingency that they just look at where they are and decide where they will go. Other then the obvious of not knowing if you have wet footprint I was wondering if there is a legal requirement (other then careless and reckless) to calculate ETPs.

Here is another good one, these guys do not carry a track message. They operate above the tracks and did not understand that they had to be aware of where the tracks were in case of a contingency.

 

[Fokkerflyer]

Always put them on plotting chart and keep track of where you are. Collins Pro Line 4 allows you to display up to 5 fixes on the MFD independent of the FMS flight plan. Create the ETP LAT/LONG's as pilot waypoints and display them that way.

On the GIV we would select the waypoint LAT/LONG page on DU4 which always shows current LAT/LONG and keep track that way.

As someone already said, they're NOT part of your FPL route, merely advisory for your flight based on your alt/speed/fuel. Many ways to skin a cat.

Another good habit is to request the weather for your diversion airport as you approach your ETP's, as that could impact your course of action.

 

[Spooky 2]

Here is a good one, encountered some guys operating Part 91 that are not calculating ETPs. They claim if they have a contingency that they just look at where they are and decide where they will go. Other then the obvious of not knowing if you have wet footprint I was wondering if there is a legal requirement (other then careless and reckless) to calculate ETPs.

Here is another good one, these guys do not carry a track message. They operate above the tracks and did not understand that they had to be aware of where the tracks were in case of a contingency.

Sad but very true and proably all to common in some Part 91 Ops. I can really be difficult to fix a bad case of Stupid. Can't think of any regs other than the catch all...careless, reckless and yes..stupid that would cover this issue.

 

[Wiggums]

Probably why 91 guys are 5% of the traffic but cause 50%+ of the problems.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Another important factor to think about is "just what is an ETP ... an Equal Time Point". The only time that a highly defined (read accurate to all actual conditions) ETP is important is when fuel on arrival at the diversionary airport is schossche (read minimal).

If you've got baggs of gas onboard, the highly defined ETP is an exercise and nothing more.

With lots-a-fuel (my favorite) should something happen you should look at the problem and determine your best option ... play your card ... and go where want and can!

Spooky2 ... chime in here if you like ...

ETP's are only an advisory point, not a regulatory point, all depending on fuel state. You can and should do what is right for your flight should a diversionary/contingency requirement present itself.

ETP's ARE NOT A PART OF YOUR FLIGHT PLAN ROUTE!

TransMach

I don't have Spooky's experience, but I disagree with your opinion.
An ETP shows your nearest (in time) runway. Any inflight emergency could cause a divert to it, not just a low fuel state.