Esop

[glasspilot]

Can any of you guys enlighten me as to how your ESOP programs are / were set up?

How many shares were issued to pilots vs. the rest of the employees? How long did you have to hold the shares before you could sell them? Were you given shares at current value or guaranteed future value or something else?

Just curious and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance...

 

[glasspilot]

bump.

Common guys. Can a brother get a little help here?

 

[CA1900]

Can any of you guys enlighten me as to how your ESOP programs are / were set up?

All I can say is, be very cautious:

http://www.cmhlegal.com/commutair.asp

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Don't do it, unless you get

1)Most important, VOTING RIGHTS with the stock
2)Ability to sell at YOUR leisure, not companies
3)They will offset a pay cut by stock
4)Mgmt doesn't mind if stock drops to zero, golden parachute, you will take the loss not them.
5)Take cold hard cash SNAP BACK!

 

[glasspilot]

So for a company looking to start an ESOP program as a suppliment to pay (not to replace pay) what you you suggest the pilot group look for? I have very little experiance with ESOP. Only know it exists.

 

[jonjuan]

So for a company looking to start an ESOP program as a suppliment to pay (not to replace pay) what you you suggest the pilot group look for? I have very little experiance with ESOP. Only know it exists.

In any air transportation or related company the only supplement to pay should be pay. Managament doesn't give stock simply because they are nice. It's a loan you are giving them in place of more pay. There's the chance the loan could pay you back, plus interest, however, don't count on it.
It's the golden handcuffs to keep some happy with future optimism.

 

[CA1900]

There's the chance the loan could pay you back, plus interest, however, don't count on it.

There's also the chance the stock is worthless, and you'll really wish you'd taken the pay instead. See my link above for an example. I think my shares are worth about $1.12 after being 100% vested.

 

[vtwo]

Ask the United and Nwa Pilots how that worked fro them? don't do it TAKE CASH.
And then Only Maybe stock Bonuses with the ability to sell when you want.

 

[Fozzy]

There's also the chance the stock is worthless, and you'll really wish you'd taken the pay instead. See my link above for an example. I think my shares are worth about $1.12 after being 100% vested.

You beat me by $.32. I hope those criminals rot in He!!.

Listen to everyone else. Cash is king. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

 

[Joe Henry]

Hi Folks,
I am the Joseph Henry in reference to Henry v Champlain et al...call me at 571 282-8249 for some valuable advice on the ESOP arena and the site www.nceo.org is an excellent trade group that I belong to even today...oh yeah just as a side note we will most likely go to the Supreme Court concerning our fraudulent ESOP scheme...remember profits are privatized and losses are socialized.... email me at [email protected]

 

[jimcav]

Hi Joe. How the f$%k have you been?

 

[CA1900]

I am the Joseph Henry in reference to Henry v Champlain et al...

Joe!! You're still my personal hero for carrying the torch on all that. I'll give you a ring soon just to say "hey"; it's been too long...

In other news, I hear your co-plaintiff is enjoying a new job. Glad to hear it!

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

Wow! A little CommutAir reunion! Gettin' a little teary-eyed here. Hope everything is well with you, Joe!

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Hey Cameron,

Don't let them sell you down the river with stock. Stock is for wall street. Cash is for us to invest in stock. An ESOP means they are running out of money. They are essentially taking a loan from you pilots. They almost NEVER pay it back. It'll never happen. They will then let the stock plummet. It's UAL all over again. Don't do it. You'll end up back at FSI, saying WTF. Seniority is king, but keep an eye out, are they cash and carry at certain FBO's?? You might need to go to the job fairs early, Net Jets, Citation Shares, etc. It's better than the street, behind the others that will be job hunting also. If they are dead set going to do it, I'd say at least triple your pay in the version of stock. Take you current pay, add the stock, and the smaller paycheck together. You MUST get voting rights, and early sale dates. It's ugly. Sell the piss out of it!

 

[AutoBus]

bump.

Common guys. Can a brother get a little help here?

It's usually a complete scam to get owners "equity" out of the company.

Something like this,

1. They get someone to overvalue the company for example $200 Million.

2. Then they give the employees part of it.

3. hey "lend" the esop the money on "paper" to fund they employee shares.

4. The company retires the esop debt into the pockets of the owners (from earnings)

5. Someone finally figures out the company is not and never was worth $200 million.

6. IRS gets interested

7. Lawyers get interested.

8. employee's get nothing (or very little)


ESOP = RIPOFF!