Entry Level King Air Position

[Flyingdutchman]

Case,

Sir, I respectfully disagree with you. I flew 310’s over the Rockies at 19 single pilot, and I’ll have 3 ATP’s (FAA, CAA and JAA) at 23.

I will however agree with you, that the only thing I have really learned so far, is that I still have a lot to learn, that’s why I’m always open minded to listen and learn from people such as yourself.

It’s not a big deal to fly a -200 indeed. It’s all about decision making skills, and flying a 310 for a while single pilot and upgrade to a king air after a while is a good step do develop such skills. So yes, I do think that I’m qualified enough to make command decisions in a BE-200.



My boss trusts me, so does his insurance company..

Don’t forget that there are “kids” with 600 hours flying RJ’s this summer to Newark with your kids in the back.

Yours,
FD

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Also, “5000 hours total time” doesn’t make good pilots.. I fly coast to coast, Mexico, Canada and Europe trips regularly. I would say that those experiences are way better compared to crop dusting for 2000 hours to develop good decision making skills.

Regards,
FD

 

[caseyd]

Also, “5000 hours total time” doesn’t make good pilots.. I fly coast to coast, Mexico, Canada and Europe trips regularly. I would say that those experiences are way better compared to crop dusting for 2000 hours to develop good decision making skills.

Regards,
FD

FD,
I meant my comments to be taken in the widest context. You and others may be exceptional. I'm positive that some are capable of risk management before most. While the typical corp/frac/121/pleasure/helo pilot has many tasks, risk management is what the Captain's inflight job is all about. Improperly done, nothing else matters. Ergo...my concern when an employer seems to set as their guiding requirement, the ability to meet minimum insurance standards.

I'm sure the employer who initiated this thread has other standards and I do not intend this discussion to imply otherwise.

Lastly, it is worth us all focusing upon the most significant tie which binds us all together. That is the willingness to take on responsibility. Who amongst us professionals has not been at a party where a guest, when learning our profession, has not heard these words...I'd never want that responsibility. But we all shoulder it without a thought. That's fine but we should also remember that what we do is critical. The decisions we make, without consideration of impact, have mortal implication to our passengers. And I think we should credit ourselves for that reality. What you and others do is remarkable.

Off my box now.

Respectfully,
caseyd

 

[bigD]

Case,

Sir, I respectfully disagree with you. I flew 310’s over the Rockies at 19 single pilot, and I’ll have 3 ATP’s (FAA, CAA and JAA) at 23.

I will however agree with you, that the only thing I have really learned so far, is that I still have a lot to learn, that’s why I’m always open minded to listen and learn from people such as yourself.

It’s not a big deal to fly a -200 indeed. It’s all about decision making skills, and flying a 310 for a while single pilot and upgrade to a king air after a while is a good step do develop such skills. So yes, I do think that I’m qualified enough to make command decisions in a BE-200.



My boss trusts me, so does his insurance company..

Don’t forget that there are “kids” with 600 hours flying RJ’s this summer to Newark with your kids in the back.

Yours,
FD

First of all, we're talking about making command decisions, and those 600 hour wonder pilots in the RJ aren't making them. If there were two 600 hour wonder pilots flying the plane, then I'd worry!

Of course your boss and insurance companies trust you. Otherwise you wouldn't be flying for them. It also makes sense that you feel you're capable of making command decisions in the 200, otherwise I'd hope you wouldn't fly either. Hell, I fly a plane with a gross weight half that of the 200, and I still feel somewhat like a baby taking his first real steps. I have a lot to learn.

The issue raised by the thread is whether or not the insurance companies (or your boss, for that matter) are underestimating the experience required to make command decisions in a plane like the 200, and I tend to think that *most* 1500 hours pilots lack the breadth of experience to do so. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you as a pilot - I said *most*. I know nothing of your experience as a pilot other than your time in the 310, which is indeed good time.

But I also feel your age and your future ATP's are irrelevant, as neither indicate anything about experience, other than showing that you have 1500 hours sitting in an airplane, and you have little memory of the 80's.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Heck, I even have little memory about yesterday

FD

 

[bigD]

Heh! Join the club!

 

[HMR]

Hell, I fly a plane with a gross weight half that of the 200, and I still feel somewhat like a baby taking his first real steps. I have a lot to learn.

I think I've told you this a few times already: your twin cessna is muuuuch harder to fly than a BE20. I'd fly with a guy who's been knocking around single pilot in a C340/414/421 any day!

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Agree wit HMR.. The 310 was a lot harder to fly.. It will make you a better pilot

FD

 

[350DRIVER]

The 310 is a lot harder to fly?!?!. Jee wizzz, I must have missed something back when I started out in the twins. I guess this is why it is much easier to obtain insurance at lower flight times in a 310 versus that of a multi-engine turboprop...(naww, couldn't be). I knew I missed something somewhere a long the lines. This now all makes sense, much thanks to the above posters for setting some of us straight!!

3 5 0

 

[IP076]

Just wanted to take a minute and say....

Welcome back Top Gun Mav.....

Toolbox.....

 

[HMR]

\I guess this is why it is much easier to obtain insurance at lower flight times in a 310 versus that of a multi-engine turboprop...(naww, couldn't be).

Personally, I've never understood why it's easier to get insured in a twin Cessna. If anyone thinks a B model 414 or 421 is easier to fly than a King Air, please let me in on your secret. Fuel management and shock cooling/heating are the first items that come to mind. Also the "delicacy" of the Cessnas: I have 5X as many hours in King airs than I do in twin Cessnas yet I've had 5X as many systems failures (generators, pressurisation, magnetos...) in the piston twins. Also, how many times have you seen a Cessna 400, 800 or 1000 series autopilot work for a whole week straight? Even the 30 year old Sperry's in the King Airs can still fly an acceptable ILS.

 

[350DRIVER]

If anyone thinks a B model 414 or 421 is easier to fly than a King Air, please let me in on your secret.

Not sure I have a secret for you however well trained and experienced pilots usually don't have much trouble in the 414 and 421's that I have seen. Relatively a pretty easy plane to operate, easy and straight forward systems, easy to fly, etc. I personally thought the 421 was a walk in the park compared to the B100 but that is just a personal opinion. I guess the same case can be made to the "delicacy" of the B100 which blown current limiters, pressurization problems, systems failures, etc, can occur if one is not trained and properly prepared. Power management in the 421 was a cake walk compared to the 100 which was extremely "touchy" down low.

 

[TimsKeeper]

The Cessna series are easy to fly.

Have you tried the "P"Baron? That plane is a real pain in the @#$! If you've flown one you know how doggish ( below 1000 ft) it can be for a piston that trues at close to 240. That ain't your fathers' straight 58.

 

[Kingairrick]

OK. So after reading some of the excellent posts above, I'm going to flip flop on this one.
As we gain experience, the way we gain experience, is by having those "oh $hit" moments. Maybe the reason it is easier to get insurance on recips is because generally, those "oh $hit" moments happen at lower altitudes/airspeeds.
The King Airs that I have flown have all been much easier to fly than the old Chieftain I flew years ago. However, they are less tolerant of mismanagement or errors made by the pilot. Also, the trips were much longer and complex, requiring more planning.
I guess a properly supervised 1500 hr pilot, flying a C90B between Raleigh and Charlotte would be OK. But, I would not be comfortable throwing him into the Rockies in the winter.

 

[semperfido]

this is the kind of job i'll be looking for when i am done flyinn the big iron

 

[Lead Sled]

I guess a properly supervised 1500 hr pilot, flying a C90B between Raleigh and Charlotte would be OK. But, I would not be comfortable throwing him into the Rockies in the winter.

Many years ago I was attending a FlightSafety recurrent for the Cheyenne. One day while we were at lunch a group of us was discussing the usual pilot topics (Read: bitching and whinning). Eventually the topic turned to the really important things like pay. There was a young, inexperienced kid, obviously there for his first turbine training, who was bragging about how lucky he was to have this first turboprop job and how they didn't pay him very much. One of the "seasoned" pilots at the table said, "Son, I hope your boss doesn't run into any $50,000 weather with his $16,000 pilot." Today we'd probably have to add 50% to those amounts, but you get my point.

'Sled

 

[kilroy]

I can hardly imagine a insurance company gives a rats a$$ how hard it is to fly. I'd tend to believe they consider the amount of damage and lives you could take with this particular aircraft and the accident record of type.

 

[mike1mc]

Skip,
Just one guy's opinion but, I do hope qualifying for insurance is not the only threashold your applicants need cross. I've got a 16 year old with a drivers license and insurance and I'd dam sure not send him off with my 14 year old daughter in the back seat. If you get my meaning. Y'all be careful out there.
caseyd

I found this on another board, I'm not the contact, just reposting from another board.