Enter Controlled airspace heading 090 degrees

[Checks]

The other day I departed an uncontrolled field via runway 27 and the clearance I received from ATC said "enter controlled airspace heading 090". Controlled airspace started at 700ft agl. In retrospect there was no way I was going to be able to depart runway 27, climb to 400ft agl prior to turning and being on a 090 heading prior to 700ft. Nothing was said by ATC when I checked in at 1500ft agl and I said I was turning to a 090 heading.
Was I wrong to not be on the 090 heading at 700ft agl(controlled airspace)? What do you guys think?

 

[Singlecoil]

Why couldn't you level off at 500 feet and make the 180?

 

[Jrparne]

That's not always possible, terrain, obstructions, etc...

You should of said unable with the request and let the controller again know the departure runway.

 

[Booker]

Dumb question, so forgive me: Are you sure the instruction wasn't "entering controlled airspace fly heading 090"?

 

[Checks]

No, the actual clearance was "Enter controlled airspace heading 090". After looking at the Air Traffic Control Order I think the controller just used the wrong wording. I least that's what I "think".

 

[paulsalem]

No, the actual clearance was "Enter controlled airspace heading 090". After looking at the Air Traffic Control Order I think the controller just used the wrong wording. I least that's what I "think".

As far as I know this is a legal clearance. I had a CFI who was a former ATCer. I asked him about this one day, years ago, and he said that ATC cannot give you a clearance (heading, altitude, fix) while you are in uncontrolled (class G) airspace. That is why they phrase it like this.

Just a reminder it is up to the PIC to determine if he can accept a clearnce from ATC. You are the final authority. Just a reminder, sometimes we forget that it isn't ATC flying the plane.

As far as if you did anything wrong. I guess by the letter of the law you did. But like you said, no one seemed to care. Next time I'd just explain that you are unable and tell him what you can do.

 

[Booker]

No, the actual clearance was "Enter controlled airspace heading 090". After looking at the Air Traffic Control Order I think the controller just used the wrong wording. I least that's what I "think".

I'd think so too, but IDK. Like paul says, uncontrolled airspace is just that, uncontrolled (hence the typical clearance of "entering controlled airspace..."), and it seems like that clearance was pushing the boundaries. (Hey, maybe avbug can come on here and tell us how we're all morons for even discussing it. )

 

[avbug]

I don't think anyone's incorrect for discussing it, but it's also hard to address the clearance without having heard it verbatim.

Given the accounting here and the inability to meet the clearance, the pilot who receives the clearance has a duty to seek clarification, and ultimately not accept the clearance. If you can't do it and accept it, it's all on you.

By regulation, we're required to seek clarification of a clearance any time there is any doubt.

 

[MauleSkinner]

No, the actual clearance was "Enter controlled airspace heading 090". After looking at the Air Traffic Control Order I think the controller just used the wrong wording. I least that's what I "think".

Well, if they DID use the wrong wording, it's a widespread error...I've gotten that wording all over the country (except the east coast, where I've never been to an airport in uncontrolled airspace )

 

[ackattacker]

This is a common clearance. The TERPS and the way the airspace is protected for your departure from an uncontrolled field give you a pretty wide margin for maneuvering vis. a vis. aircraft seperation, which is all the controller really cares about. The gist of it is that the controller wants you flying 090 as soon as is reasonable after departure and taking into account any required Obstacle DP's, standard rate turns etc. In fact you are obligated in IMC conditions to comply with the Obstacle DP first and the clearance second so long as you are not in radar contact.

No different then you're cruising along heading south and the controller tells you "fly heading 360". Well obviously it's going to take you a minute or so to get turned around. You are not in violation of the clearance during that time unless you fail to initiate the turn.

The words "enter controlled airspace" or "entering controlled airspace" simply reflect the fact that you are uncontrolled up to that point and the controller cannot legally issue a clearance inside uncontrolled airspace. As soon as you cross the boundary into class E (or whatnot) then you are "controlled" and the clearance takes effect. At that point you should be maneuvering to comply with the clearance.

More to the point, it would be foolish and unsafe to stop your climb at 700 AGL simply to get turned around to 090.

 

[Booker]

Right on, ackattacker. All great points.

 

[avbug]

FAA Order 7110.65S, ATC Handbook, paragraph 4-3-2, in excerpt:

c. Departure Procedures. ​

1. Specify direction of takeoff/turn or initial heading/azimuth to be flown after takeoff as follows: ​

(a) Locations with Airport Traffic Control Service- Specify these items as necessary. ​

(b) Locations without Airport Traffic Control Service, but within a Class E surface area- specify these items if necessary. Obtain/solicit the pilot's concurrence concerning these items before issuing them in a clearance. ​

NOTE-
Direction of takeoff and turn after takeoff can be obtained/solicited directly from the pilot, or relayed by an FSS, dispatcher, etc., as obtained/solicited from the pilot. ​

(c) At all other airports- Do not specify direction of takeoff/turn after takeoff. If necessary to specify an initial heading/azimuth to be flown after takeoff, issue the initial heading/azimuth so as to apply only within controlled airspace. ​

Aeronautical Information Manual, paragraph 5-5-14:

5-5-14. Instrument Departures ​

a. Pilot.
1. Prior to departure considers the type of terrain and other obstructions on or in the vicinity of the departure airport.
2. Determines if obstruction avoidance can be maintained visually or that the departure procedure should be followed.
3. Determines whether a departure procedure and/or DP is available for obstruction avoidance.
4. At airports where IAPs have not been published, hence no published departure procedure, determines what action will be necessary and takes such action that will assure a safe departure.



b. Controller.
1. At locations with airport traffic control service, when necessary, specifies direction of takeoff, turn, or initial heading to be flown after takeoff.
2. At locations without airport traffic control service but within Class E surface area when necessary to specify direction of takeoff, turn, or initial heading to be flown, obtains pilot's concurrence that the procedure will allow the pilot to comply with local traffic patterns, terrain, and obstruction avoidance.
3. Includes established departure procedures as part of the ATC clearance when pilot compliance is necessary to ensure separation.

 

[brokeflyer]

good job with copy/paste funtion avbug......you can handle my right seat any day.

 

[jrbevis]

Avbug is a jack!@#

I was recently laid off. When I posted on Corporate I also accidently posted on Charter. This was AVBUGS nice private message to me.

"You might consider confining your post to one forum. Spamming multiple forums with the same post only makes it annoying."

Thanks Dad/AVBUG for setting me straight! To everyone else, very sorry for being annoying and wasting your time with the SPAM!

Good day all! Except AVBUG, you seem like a real stick in the mud!!

Oh yeah, Avbug if you don’t want to read something twice don’t click on it twice and don’t PM people with stupid comments, it gets real annoying.

I'd think so too, but IDK. Like paul says, uncontrolled airspace is just that, uncontrolled (hence the typical clearance of "entering controlled airspace..."), and it seems like that clearance was pushing the boundaries. (Hey, maybe avbug can come on here and tell us how we're all morons for even discussing it. )

 

[avbug]

Don't post stupidly, and you won't need to be reminded.

 

[jrbevis]

Thank you master for your words of wisdom!

QUOTE=avbug;1821640]Don't post stupidly, and you won't need to be reminded.[/QUOTE]

 

[Eagle915]

Hi all. New guy, first post. I can see this thread is pretty ancient, but exactly this scenario happened to me a week ago.

Departure airport: KDLZ
WEather: CAVU, but I was practicing IFR departure from an uncontrolled airport fr my own proficiency
Airspace: KDLZ is Category E starting at 700 AGL
Runway in use: 10 busy VFR traffic pattern

I called Columbus aproach for a Clearance and received this:

Cleared as Filed, enter controlled airspace direct ROD, climb and maintain 3000, expect 6000 10 minutes after departure...etc.

Now, "direct ROD" is about a 190 degree turn from takeoff heading.

My belief is that I enter "controlled airspace" in this case Class E, as soon as I pass 700 AGL.

What does ATC expect me to actually DO? Remain below 700 AGL until I'm on a heading/course direct to ROD?

Seems to me that in VFR with a busy pattern, that's madness. Seems to me in actual IFR, it's madness to level off below 700 AGL, whether in IMC there or VMC there, to complete this turn "to enter controlled airspace" on the directed course.

Again: question is: what does the Controller expect me to actually DO?

thanks.

Eagle915