Enough!

[pilotyip]

Please point out who said experience makes "no difference". This is a very girly way to debate, by the way. Do you straw man much?

Isn't that what you said?

Given the tumult in the industry, it is just as likely to find a highly experienced FO with a lower time captain.

When it comes to pay, a captain is a captain is a captain.

Experience in type does not automatically correlate to skill, nor diligence at the job, nor in knowledge.

"Experience" is a very crude yardstick.

How often do we see the complacent rule-bending senior captain juxtaposed against the much more diligent mid-seniority captain?

I've been in this game long enough to know that competence and professionalism is fairly evenly distributed throughout the seniority list at most airlines.

Therefore, when it comes to pay,

a captain,

is a captain,

is a captain.

Unless you are pulling a junior captain off a trip and calling up a senior one to take the flight in the interests of safety, there is no logical argument why the senior captain should be making far more than the junior one.

NOW:::::: if it is about rewarding years in service, or loyalty to the airline, then that is up to the individual parties to the CBA to decide that.

Let me explain something to you:

In law firms, medicine, engineering, and many other professions, larger and more complex jobs are often handed to the most experienced practitioners.

This implies that the more experienced person can tackle work that the newer guy should not yet take on.

When the snow is coming down and the runways are glare ice, do we send the junior captains home and call up all the senior guys?

Ummm, no.

Therefore, captains are interchangeable in terms of their overall economic utility to the airline.

You either CAN cut it, or you CAN'T.

I can see small annual increases to reward years in service, but to pretend that there is a true justification to base pay on years in service as a proxy for skill level is at best, an emotionally-derived position.

 

[livin'thesim]

Ask a college grad to read it to you and explain how it is incorrect to infer "no difference" from that.

 

[pilotyip]

Ask a college grad to read it to you and explain how it is incorrect to infer "no difference" from that.

Experience in type does not automatically correlate to skill, nor diligence at the job, nor in knowledge.

That doesn't say experience makes no difference? But the FAA in its regulation recognizes that experience makes a difference and low experience pilots need more safety crutches? Begin able to fly and read has nothing to do with a college degree.

 

[100-1/2]

Well! Here's your problem:

-1000 run ABCExpress averaging $10M annually over 20 years; retire and receive 80% pensions.

-1000 replacements carry-on the legacy of the first 1k under same performance; retire and receive 80% pensions.

-1000 additional people are working for revenue that is supporting their own payroll, the 80% pensions of the first 2000 workers?

If the first 1000 people had a $2M payroll in year 19 of their careers;
the second 1000 people had a $5M payroll in year 19 of their careers; and
the third 1000 people have a $6M payroll in year 5 of their caareers; then...

The third 1000 people have $11.6M in Payroll and Legacy costs to contend with?

Why should a company you no longer work for continue to pay you 80% of what you
made in your last year of employment, until you die?

100-1/2

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Well! Here's your problem:

-1000 run ABCExpress averaging $10M annually over 20 years; retire and receive 80% pensions.

-1000 replacements carry-on the legacy of the first 1k under same performance; retire and receive 80% pensions.

-1000 additional people are working for revenue that is supporting their own payroll, the 80% pensions of the first 2000 workers?

If the first 1000 people had a $2M payroll in year 19 of their careers;
the second 1000 people had a $5M payroll in year 19 of their careers; and
the third 1000 people have a $6M payroll in year 5 of their caareers; then...

The third 1000 people have $11.6M in Payroll and Legacy costs to contend with?

Why should a company you no longer work for continue to pay you 80% of what you
made in your last year of employment, until you die?

100-1/2

Except you left something huge out of your equation. In this example, the company should be setting money aside money to fund your retirement from day you are hired. Another big problem with your example is no company has a 4% multiplier on their pension (work 20 years, receive 80%).

Companies underfund pensions (as permitted by law) and then cry poor once that actually have to meet the pension obligation. Using rough calculations, and a few assumptions: Hired at 30, retire at 65, live to 90, 8% annual return and 80% pension payout. The company would need to sock away 22% of your income each year. Very few companies actually do that.

At least the majors have called a spade a spade and now just give you your retirement contribution on each paycheck. HA contributes 18%, UA gives 16% and DL gives 14%, etc.

 

[aircombat]

Experience in type does not automatically correlate to skill, nor diligence at the job, nor in knowledge.

That doesn't say experience makes no difference? But the FAA in its regulation recognizes that experience makes a difference and low experience pilots need more safety crutches? Begin able to fly and read has nothing to do with a college degree.

An airline gets paid a set amount of money to bring an aircraft safely from point A to B. I'll admit I don't have the numbers but I feel confident that this task gets achieved nearly equally by all seniority levels.

It seams hard to justify why people should get paid different amounts for accomplishing the same tasks. There are different benefits to seniority other than pay such as, better schedule, base options, upgrades, and vacation.

Experience is great, it will make YOUR life easier and it is not being attacked here but with how safe and structured the industry has become it brings little monetary value.

 

[livin'thesim]

I think you are struggling with the meaning of the phrase "automatically correlate".

Please stop being a girl about this.

 

[pilotyip]

I think you are struggling with the meaning of the phrase "automatically correlate".

Please stop being a girl about this.

Hey nice name calling, it is so FI. Now back to our regularly scheduled exchanges. I am not struggling with your post of 1-21-13 "Experience in type does not automatically correlate to skill, nor diligence at the job, nor in knowledge", because as I understand it we are talking exception when we say doesn't automatically correlate. Like making the statement all tall men men do not automatically correlate to being good basketball players, but they have a higher probability of being better basketball player than a short person. Keep the discussion civil please.

 

[flyboyike]

Like making the statement all tall men men do not automatically correlate to being good basketball players, but they have a higher probability of being better basketball player than a short person.

Well, they'd have to be not just tall, but also...nah, too easy.