Engine Failure while Holding

[ackattacker]

I wasn't antagonizing nothing. I was just asking how long do you plan on sitting there dinking around with a checklist in your hand before you let the other engine run out of gas too? Engine outages are predominantly pilot caused...maybe reading how to fly the plane in flight while in IFR is the best place to get some extra dual. After all, the angel of death won't take six months to a year to figure out the causal factors as to why you're dead...you're just dead.

I say it again... nobody on this board is advocating holding indefinately. The post about wait till your EFC time was a joke, meant to take down the level of hostility a notch.

The question put to the board was, if the engine failure occurs at the moment that you are entering the hold, do you continue the entry or do you level out? The corrrect answer is that you continue the entry. Do it any other way on a checkride and you will fail. Do it any other way in real life and you risk collision with aircraft or terrain. You really think I'm going to Vmc roll it because I did two things at once? That's pretty insulting. The vast majority of twins will hold altitude on one engine. Even if you're flying a beat up old Apache at gross, you'll only be descending maybe 200'/min. So what's the rush?

You stated engine outtages were predominately pilot caused. In the GA world, perhaps correct, although I've seen no statistics on it. If you use the checklist it will remind you to check those things you might have forgotten, such as fuel selectors. If you rush yourself and do it the cowboy way you may do something stupid like shut down the other engine. It's been done.

You keep saying that IFR is not time to "read how to fly an airplane". Guess what, myself and hundreds of thousand of other pilots "read how to fly an airplane" a dozen times a day. I know perfectly well how to start an engine but when time comes to do it I call for the engine start checklist. When time come to land I read the before landing checklist. And if I ever have an engine failure I'm going to accomplish the memory items and then call for or read the engine failure checklist. If you do it the right way it's just another phase of flight, one that you've practiced and trained for. A lot of people get paid a lot more than you or I to think about these things and develop the training programs involved. I'm not smart enough to second guess them, but then I guess I'm not as smart as you.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Actually EFC time is only for lost comm.

I was joking. :beer: It was the only absurd thing I could relate to the initial question.

 

[Lead Sled]

So you're saying the FAA bears the liability for a faulty manufacturer's checklist that they certified and required by the FARS? And that because the FAA certified and required the checklist, that the aircraft manufacturer is let out of the liability to produce an accurate publication?

REALLY? So if the manufacturer of the aircraft provides pilots with a faulty checklist, the liability issue only arises if they are not provided the checklist or if the pilots don't use the faulty checklist?

FN FAL...
Sorry it's taken so long to respond, we've been out flying.

Actually, there's a bruhaha a brew'n as we speak with regards to a dangerous and faulty checklist that Gulfstream has published for the Astra/G100 series airplanes.

All checklists are not created equal - for simple aircraft like light twins, most piston singles, and some turboprop singles like Caravans, etc. "pneumonic" checklists like GUMPS, CIGARS, or any of the other various and sundry ones out there work just fine and thus the need for extensive written manufacturer's checklists really isn't there. However, things change as you move up the ladder - the systems in many transport category jets are quite complex and you can really get things royally screwed up in a hurry if you try to "ad-lib" a response to an emergency or abnormal situation. Currently, there is a trend among manufacturers to eliminate or minimize the memory action items in aircraft emergency and abnormal checklists.

'Sled

 

[mar]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I was joking. :beer: It was the only absurd thing I could relate to the initial question.

See? This is the trouble with the internet. The problem is, that response wasn't absurd *enough*.

I've been a CFI so I've heard some really crazy stuff before and it wouldn't surprise me if there are people out there who would subscribe to this kinda thinking.

And even though I can call "BS" on something like that, there are a lot of less experieced pilots who will look at your profile and take that statement at face value and then try to apply it.

The internet can be veeerrrrryyyyy scary sometimes.

Ciao.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I went back and added one of those Tongue-In-Cheek smiley faces to my original joke. :nuts:

 

[mar]

Now THIS is expert absurdity at its best!

Roll inverted, valsalva, and eject.

All you frustrated comedians out there need to start following this guy around.

This is absurd and funny as hell.

Go in peace.