Engine Failure On Takeoff - 2 Cfi's At The Controls

[PHX767]

I have a couple hundred hours of dual given in the Seminole, so I thought I would chime in to this thoughtful discussion.

Re: The new MEI's comment that his examiner said he always accelerates to blue line before gear retraction - I ask, what is blue line? Best engine out climb speed, right? How does this relate to Vmc and control of the airplane? Please be aware that Vmc is an everchanging speed dependent on a lot of factors, the gear being one of them. Why not attain Vmc, be able to fly if you lose one, then retract the gear and pitch for at least Vyse + 5-10.

Here's a question to muck up the works - Will the prop feather if the engine stops? Are there anti feather pins on this plane? How about other light twins you are flying?

I was well versed in all the factors that affect Vmc when I was an MEI. When I trained pilots in a larger turboprop, I met Vmc a few times every night, especially when light, on a single engine miss, and then the student called for Gear up. I could tell by how far they had the yoke cranked over to keep the wings level how close we were to the edge.

 

[FlyBieWire]

This is very interesting.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I have a couple hundred hours of dual given in the Seminole, so I thought I would chime in to this thoughtful discussion.

Why not attain Vmc, be able to fly if you lose one, then retract the gear and pitch for at least Vyse + 5-10.

The proper procedure for takeoff in a multiengine airplane is to always rotate past Vmc at Vr and pitch for Vy, retracting the landing gear very shortly after takeoff unless the takeoff runway is longer than 5000 feet in length. If an engine is lost pitch forward to hold airspeed and do not accelerate to Vyse if below by no more than 10k (unless control is a problem). Vxse is also a proper airspeed speed for initial engine out climb airspeed after takeoff.

If airspeed is no more than 10k below Vyse, single engine rate-of-climb will still be almost as good and may even be better than at Vyse if the airplane is lightly loaded. Accelerating to the marked blue line will most likely result in altitude loss and possibly a flight directly into eternity.

 

[Holding Short]

Pitch for level flight and then do the procedure. Eyes outside not focused on A/S indicator. Level flight will be close enough on speed, above VMC.

My $ 0.02 P.S. Works on Microsofts 2004 F/S every time.

 

[Holding Short]

I don't have my multi engine rating yet, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[Holding Short]

Hello... Hello... testing 1..2...3.
Is this thing(mic) on?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Pitch for level flight and then do the procedure. Eyes outside not focused on A/S indicator. Level flight will be close enough on speed, above VMC.

Your comment is insightful and correct. Keep staying at the Holiday Inn Express!

 

[acaTerry]

Why not attain Vmc, be able to fly if you lose one, then retract the gear and pitch for at least Vyse + 5-10.

Wow, I hope I misread what you mean here...

Do you mean maintain Vmc? No way you'll catch me doing that. Losing an engine at Vmc in a Seminole would require a very, very aggressive pitch down if encountered during the takeoff phase. Certain death if you are down low.

I am of the school of thought to accelerate through Vmc and get to Blue line rapidly. Clean up once you have met that point where you are safer to continue the climb or start that inevitable descent on one engine (buy yourself more time).

That decision, of course, has been the debate of this whole thread.

 

[brokeflyer]

what they did wrong was get into that airplane in the first place.....but they made up for that mistake by doing the right thing and landing.......

 

[acaTerry]

Most dangerous thing I ever did...got in a Cherokee with 3 other CFIs.