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Engine Failure in Flight

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Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Posts
113
...I have always been taught to immeadiately pitch for Best Glide when the engine fails, and then start looking for a place to land and turning. After you have that under control, you start running your restart checklist, and then your shutdown checklist.

Now I am at a school where they want you to immeadiately run your checklist, and then if it wont restart pitch for best glide, and look for a place to land and turn.

How were you guys taught? How would you do it in an emergency as PIC?
 
Id pitch first. If you dont get it restarted then you may have wasted precious time looking at the checklist. I use ALARMS. Airspeed (Best glide), Landing spot, Air restart, Radios (121.5/7700), Mayday, Secure (shut off fuel, master, pop doors, etc.)
 
I was taught how you were. I think that a lot of accidents are caused by the pilot not maintaining proper airspeed after an engine failure and the resultant stall/spin. In my opinion, it is important to trim the airplane for best glide, figure out where you are going to put it and set yourself up for a forced landing, then worry about restarting it.

Maybe your school is figuring that you need to slow from cruise speed to best glide speed anyway so you might as well be doing something. To that I counter, but what if the engine fails in the climb? You need to immediately pitch it over and establish glide speed or you will get to do a stall recovery with the restart checklist in one hand.
 
For a single, this is what I taught -
Airspeed (Vg)
Best landing spot
Checklist following a flow if you haven't hit the ground yet.
 
TEXAN AVIATOR said:
For a single, this is what I taught -
Airspeed (Vg)
Best landing spot
Checklist following a flow if you haven't hit the ground yet.
I do it in this order. If I knew what caused the failure i.e. carb ice, forgot to adjust the mixture on climb/descent, need to change fuel tanks, I'd do that action before pitching for best glide.
 
I was taught to think. Viper has the correct answer. Why go through all of the monkey motion if you just forgot to switch the tanks or turn on a fuel pump? If the problem is obvious then what Texas Aviator said.

'Sled
 
You only have one basic duty in that airplane, and it never changes, and never goes away.

Fly the airplane.
 
viper548 said:
I do it in this order. If I knew what caused the failure i.e. carb ice, forgot to adjust the mixture on climb/descent, need to change fuel tanks, I'd do that action before pitching for best glide.
I'd do that =while= pitching for best glide.

The idea is to have an automatic initial reaction that will =always= work. Engine fails - pitch for best glide always works. And it only takes a second.

(Avbug? You've flown enough different aircraft; certainly far more than me. With my limited experience, I have never come across a single that didn't approximate best glide by simply putting it into a cruise level pitch attitude. Have you?)

Anything else can kill you. You want to troubleshoot as your first step on an engine failure on takeoff?
 
I've also read that if you are flying a carbureted airplane it might be a good idea to put on carb heat simultaneously as you pitch for best glide. Why? Because if ice is the reason for the failure, the engine may cool down too much for that checklist item, when completed later, to do much good.
 
viper548 said:
I do it in this order. If I knew what caused the failure i.e. carb ice, forgot to adjust the mixture on climb/descent, need to change fuel tanks, I'd do that action before pitching for best glide.

Agree with this, but I do it AS I am also pitching as some others have said.
 
Your school is wrong. Engine failure or fire is a memory item in most planes. Especially single pilot! If you're not familiar enough with the operation of the engine without using a checklist then you're not ready to fly it alone.
 
(Avbug? You've flown enough different aircraft; certainly far more than me. With my limited experience, I have never come across a single that didn't approximate best glide by simply putting it into a cruise level pitch attitude. Have you?)

I don't honestly know. I've never thought about the pitch attitude during an engine failure.

Unless I'm on intruments, most of the time it's strictly a feel issue, and I probably am not looking inside the cockpit. One airplane I regularly fly, a single, has a flight manual which is placarded on the cover "Nothing in this manual is to be believed." It's a foriegn airplane with a foriegn flight manual, and none of the numbers or speeds are close to the book, even if it were believable, due to numerous mods. I have no idea what the "best glide" speed is, and don't really care. I know where it feels right, and that's where I'll fly it, eyes outside.

The airplane has no checklist, and attempting to use one would be a really bad idea, especially in an emergency. It's a very "hands-on" airplane that you really don't want to let go of, especially when things aren't going well.

From a practical point of view, however, one intuitively knows that if one is trimmed for a speed higher than best glide, one is going to have to hold back pressure at best glide...until it's trimmed off. I can't see any value in pitching up to obtain best glide speed...doing as you say and holding the present attitude until the speed bleeds down to best glide is probably a much more preferable choice, but it needs to be temperated with consideration for obstacles, terrain, etc. When I've experienced engine failures before, much of the time they've been within a few feet of the surface, up to a couple hundred feet, because that's where the airplane is operated much of the time. It's operated often in very cut up mountainous terrain, and therefore a prime consideration isn't how far I can glide, but avoiding trees, powerlines, rocks, etc.

I think too much emphasis is put on best glide speed, too. How often are you going to need to stretch the glide in a single, vs. always keeping the airplane over a decent landing spot? Perhaps more important, especially if one is going to execute checklists, attempt restarts or relights, and so on, is minimum sink speed...which is not the same as best glide speed, and is often not taught.

Best glide provides the greatest possible distance, but minimum sink provides the greatest possible time to impact. Distance isn't always the critical issue, but often as not, time is. It may afford more time to relight, more time to communicate, etc. Minimum sink is also the preferable speed in white-out forced landings, water landings, etc. Especially glassy water landings.

But back to your question...I have no idea what the pitch attitude is of any airplane I fly, respective of best glide. I'd say it depends a lot on the center of gravity and loading, etc. I can tell you what it sounds like and feels like, though.
 
Best Glide is the most important part. The school that i used to teach at always wanted to teach the student that best glide is 80kts intead of 70kts in a C172. (I think that's right--it's been a while.) Anyway, by pitching for a slower or faster speed, the gliding distance is reduced. What if someone were to pitch for 80 and end up 50 yards short of a suitable landing area? Even in the Lear I do a lot of power off decents to conserve fuel and pitch for Vref +60 for best glide.
 

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