Endeavor Air-(Pinnacle, Colgan, Mesaba)

[i fly boxes]

Maybe that tone was a bit harsh, I'll take it down a notch. I do respect others opinions if they want to stay, it's less competition to those who want to leave. Plus, there could be personal family issues, emergencies, scenarios in which one cannot attend a newhire training cycle.

You probably have more posts than flight time

 

[xjhawk]

Okay so my facts were off-oops, 4,000 and not 3,000. The point stands. I hope you understand what made me post against you? You know nothing of the pilots who decided for whatever reason to stay long term at Mesaba or for that matter any regional. You may have flown with some at pinnacle but are obviously lacking in any character by knowing that every pilot is different with different factors with career and family on why they stayed. My respect for those same people would prevent me from making a blanket statement that insults them and their families.

 

[Flyer1015]

Okay so my facts were off-oops, 4,000 and not 3,000. The point stands. I hope you understand what made me post against you? You know nothing of the pilots who decided for whatever reason to stay long term at Mesaba or for that matter any regional. You may have flown with some at pinnacle but are obviously lacking in any character by knowing that every pilot is different with different factors with career and family on why they stayed. My respect for those same people would prevent me from making a blanket statement that insults them and their families.

I know which is why I take it back, I shouldn't have written that. There are many situations, especially family-related ones that prevent someone from going somewhere or doing a full initial type in some city 2-3 timezones away.

 

[xjhawk]

I know which is why I take it back, I shouldn't have written that. There are many situations, especially family-related ones that prevent someone from going somewhere or doing a full initial type in some city 2-3 timezones away.

Thank you. I have enjoyed our conversations in the past but I draw a line at low ball attacks on good people and generalizations about people you know nothing about. I have always been one to be supportive of Virgin America and wish it success and those who fly there a great career at a good place to work.

 

[Monster Buck]

Yeah, if you turn down a LCC to stay at Endeavor, I'd put that in a stupid-move category because they are going from 200+ planes down to 81. That's a guaranteed job loss.


While I may do it at a regional, I wouldn't do this at a LCC or major. Get hired and turn them down, that's one way to make sure you are never hired there again.



They are smart, realizing that the SSP isn't worth anything and better to get out asap.


What larger point?

As for my troubles at 9E, I had one JA refusal that led to a meeting and that was it, otherwise a clean record.

Isn't worth anything? A guaranteed audience with the guy who says your hired we'll see you in class at Delta isn't worth anything? Isn't that what any pilot on this planet is hoping for when they apply to any airline? If you have a clean background and they like you you going to class at Delta. Not worth anything? The only explanation for your comment is that you are dripping with jealously and it is painfully obvious. Its not a guarentee but it is far far from worthless.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Isn't worth anything? A guaranteed audience with the guy who says your hired we'll see you in class at Delta isn't worth anything? Isn't that what any pilot on this planet is hoping for when they apply to any airline? If you have a clean background and they like you you going to class at Delta. Not worth anything? The only explanation for your comment is that you are dripping with jealously and it is painfully obvious. Its not a guarentee but it is far far from worthless.

Some of the concern is that it'll take so long for the process to work it's way down to you that it is irrelevant for much of the Seniority List. Though by the time Delta gets around to it we'll only have 1800 (followed by 800 more furloughs over the next two years) or so pilots so it won't be quite as bad as before when there were 3000 .

 

[Flyer1015]

Isn't worth anything? A guaranteed audience with the guy who says your hired we'll see you in class at Delta isn't worth anything? Isn't that what any pilot on this planet is hoping for when they apply to any airline? If you have a clean background and they like you you going to class at Delta. Not worth anything? The only explanation for your comment is that you are dripping with jealously and it is painfully obvious. Its not a guarentee but it is far far from worthless.

Monster Buck,

This is one case where it's a "devil is in the details." The key things to remember is that to qualify for the SSP program, one has to be or have been a CA. The next thing to remember is the end state of 81 airplanes. Now, it's just a matter of adding up the details. With 81 planes, the end state is likely around 850-950 total pilots max. You can say that means approx. 450 CAs and 450 FOs give or take a few. The first key point is that one has to be or have been a CA. What's going to happen is that the really senior pilots will interview and some will go. Remember, some of these guys are much older and it isn't worth to them to go to Delta. They're better off staying put. Then there will be others who try twice and still don't get hired. All it takes is 450 of these kinda guys. The phenomena has already been termed the "lifer log-jam." I don't mean it in a condescending way, but this is what will happen once you have those guys who just don't want to go to Delta because of their XJ/9E seniority and/or are much older and not worth starting over at the bottom. Add those guys who don't get hired in the first and second interview chance, and you can see that 450 guys can easily stay put at 9E/XJ in Captain seats. This will "block" any upgrades from happening and therefore keeping FOs out of the SSP Delta interview. Now the FOs and most people knew this, which is why the union sold it to the FOs as "well, nothing says you have to go through the SSP, you can always apply off the street and get hired that way." Sounds good? I know a pilot personally, a 9E FO, who went to a job fair (I believe it was the WIA at BNA) where he talked to the main Delta pilot recruiter, Capt Arnie something. This CA told the 9E pilots that they already have a SSP program, any update will come through their union, and no one can cut the line. Basically, he was saying everyone at 9E will end up coming through the SSP there is to be no outside hiring. This effectively kills the chance of FOs applying outside the SSP to Delta. When you consider all these facts, it becomes apparent that the SSP will work out for a minority, not the majority. The senior side will get interviews and those hired will go. Those not hired, and those too old to want to move on, will stay put as Captains, 'blocking' upgrade opportunities for FOs who therefore cannot qualify for the SSP.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Flyer1015]

Thank you. I have enjoyed our conversations in the past but I draw a line at low ball attacks on good people and generalizations about people you know nothing about. I have always been one to be supportive of Virgin America and wish it success and those who fly there a great career at a good place to work.

Agreed. Hopefully this Age 65 related hiring opens up everywhere so there can finally be some good movement.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Except when we are 950 pilots, everyone should be a downgraded captain (with a few exceptions), so the bottom will be able to move just fine. The top will stay the top. The new hires coming into fill the seats (assuming anyone is left), will be screwed.

The current group of us will be furloughed or off to another airline first.

Fill out those apps for American and CoTied boys and girls. Meanwhile get something that will last you a few years until you are there.

 

[xjhawk]

I am thinking we will be 111 crj 900's, if we are lucky some 200's (unlikely beyond 2015). Anything more would be extra if we could staff them and Delta was upset with the performance of that carrier and take their planes away