End ALPA - Begin War

[Bringupthebird]

With all the braggadocio and machismo going on here about dumping ALPA, one only has to look at the efforts of airlines such as JetBlue whose pilots are willing to entertain such ideas as modifying flight and duty time regs in order to give their company's a competitive advantage, to see the future in a fractionalized pilot group.

When one group wishes to pursue a policy they feel will aid their pilots in achieving certain goals, other pilots may be pressured to adopt (or required in the case of regulation change) the same changes to remain competitive. Do you want to lose your long-term disability to fund Virgin America's dental plan. for example? Do you want to be forced to trade your vacation benefits to avoid Stand-up overnights, just because another tribe has gone to stand-ups as a competitive measure?

Age 65 is given as a reason to leave ALPA, but if there was no ALPA (or any central pilot union) Age 65 would have been the law of the land many years ago.

So, why when the industry is facing looming consolidation, do the pilots foolishly wish to be fractured?

 

[Ben Franklin]

So, why when the industry is facing looming consolidation, do the pilots foolishly wish to be fractured?

Because pilots don't look in the mirror when they are placing blame for their lot in life.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[PCL_128]

Because pilots don't look in the mirror when they are placing blame for their lot in life.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Bingo!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

With all the braggadocio and machismo going on here about dumping ALPA, one only has to look at the efforts of airlines such as JetBlue whose pilots are willing to entertain such ideas as modifying flight and duty time regs in order to give their company's a competitive advantage, to see the future in a fractionalized pilot group.

When one group wishes to pursue a policy they feel will aid their pilots in achieving certain goals, other pilots may be pressured to adopt (or required in the case of regulation change) the same changes to remain competitive. Do you want to lose your long-term disability to fund Virgin America's dental plan. for example? Do you want to be forced to trade your vacation benefits to avoid Stand-up overnights, just because another tribe has gone to stand-ups as a competitive measure?

Age 65 is given as a reason to leave ALPA, but if there was no ALPA (or any central pilot union) Age 65 would have been the law of the land many years ago.

So, why when the industry is facing looming consolidation, do the pilots foolishly wish to be fractured?

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you a SWAPA member?

And also correct me if I am wrong but you also supported age 65 in every thread I read.

So what do you know about being misrepresented? Your views were in complete agreement with SWAPA. And SWAPA represents a predatory company who is willing to undercut anyone anytime.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

So, why when the industry is facing looming consolidation, do the pilots foolishly wish to be fractured?

No, they wish to be unified around the majority. ALPA feels it knows better than the majority and has chosen to ignore the majority views in numerous issues and operates in SECRET to protect its over reached control.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Bingo!

And what union represents your company? Air Tran is not an ALPA company.

Your union is all about undercutting DALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

Your union is all about undercutting DALPA.

Biggest bunch of bullsh-- ever posted on this board.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Biggest bunch of bullsh-- ever posted on this board.

Let me get this straight. You are disputing the fact that Air Tran has not undercut Delta in every way possible? What planet have you been living on?

"In a game of how-low-can-you-go, AirTran Airways is trying to undercut top gun Southwest Airlines by offering steeper discounts on flights out of Midway Airport."

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=19096

The article is one of hundreds that can easily be found on the subject of Air Tran undercutting the competition because is does not have any other advantage at all. This also also shows SWA is the number one under cutter of standards in the industry but in this case was beat out by Air Tran.

 

[Ben Franklin]

ALPA feels it knows better than the majority and has chosen to ignore the majority views in numerous issues and operates in SECRET to protect its over reached control.

You make ALPA sound like a third party that exists outside the control of the line pilots who comprise its ranks.

It might very well be you that operates in secret while ignoring the very means by which OUR C&BL's give you to effect change.

Perhaps you might author a resolution to change what you don't like about ALPA. Make ALPA your ALPA, too.

Oops, I guess throwing rocks in virtual land from behind an anonymous screenname is more enthralling and rewarding for you.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[JoeMerchant]

The direction of this post has already answered the original post....Doesn't matter what alphabet group "represents" you.....we aren't unified...

USAir/AWA is ALPA but they are far from unified.....

Unification is a noble idea....ALPA can't do that.....

Merger/Seniority/Age 60/Scope/Political Endorsements....we don't agree on things...and we look at them from our perspective......

 

[luckytohaveajob]

You make ALPA sound like a third party that exists outside the control of the line pilots who comprise its ranks.

ALPA National does operate outside the oversight of the policies it pursues. Take age 65 as a prime example.

My particular MEC has just public ally stated that due to the sensitivity of the current situations they will not be able to provide any details of the issues that will effect my career.

Perhaps you might author a resolution to change what you don't like about ALPA. Make ALPA your ALPA, too.

It is being done right now. http://www.dalpilots.com/

 

[Bringupthebird]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you a SWAPA member?

And also correct me if I am wrong but you also supported age 65 in every thread I read.

So what do you know about being misrepresented? Your views were in complete agreement with SWAPA. And SWAPA represents a predatory company who is willing to undercut anyone anytime.

OK, I'll correct you. I'm not a member of SWAPA.

Yes, I support Age 65, and for many years I was in disagreement with ALPA's position. But you're missing the point of the post. Do you think having no union among carriers would have protected you from change any better?

SWAPA looks out for SWAPA and if you have hundreds of little SWAPAs running around pursuing their own agendas without regard for the profession as a whole, what chance is there that real meaningful gains will be made across the board?

Stained glass is pretty to look at, but it isn't bulletproof.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Unification is a noble idea....ALPA can't do that.....

Merger/Seniority/Age 60/Scope/Political Endorsements....we don't agree on things...and we look at them from our perspective......

So then why does ALPA state it can? And why do ALPA supporters believe it can?

Did ALPA support Comair in the late 1990's when DALPA has other needs. The two competed, and ALPA failed Comair.

ALPA is an all things to all people on the front. But in reality it is a very secretive, closed, back room organization with a UAL and DAL agenda.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Stained glass is pretty to look at, but it isn't bulletproof.

So then by your own logic, why is ALPA capable of makinga bulletproof stained glass window?

ALPA is an amalgamation of competing interests unable to represent, in any meaningful way, anything other than what it wants to represent which is DAL and UAL while lumping us all in to tow the rope.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So then why does ALPA state it can? And why do ALPA supporters believe it can?

Did ALPA support Comair in the late 1990's when DALPA has other needs. The two competed, and ALPA failed Comair.

ALPA is an all things to all people on the front. But in reality it is a very secretive, closed, back room organization with a UAL and DAL agenda.

I agree with you.....ALPA is a very loose association of competing interests all pulling in different directions.....Even within a pilot group there is a tug of war between junior and senior....

ALPA promises things that it can't deliver......