Emirates hub busting. UK-US

Ex737Driver

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Funny how, "The evolution of those rights into something far more generous in line with the reality of growing trade ties with the Middle East....." trumps age, sex, weight, height, and human rights. Kinda reminds me of the 12 yr old Cuban pitcher throwing against 12 years when in reality he was 16. Playing by the rules has a unique way of leveling the playing field.
 

General Lee

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fareview

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A lot of factors at play. Our BELF is low 60's and our service beats most by a long shot.

The other component is cargo. EK are aggressively pursuing the express shippers. FDX said a number of months ago a that they would be using commercial lift more in Asia going forward.

Many times on the walk around I see DHL stickers on the pallets.

Since 1985 EK have lost money once.

Interesting times ahead. Wouldn't bet against them.

fv
 

General Lee

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A lot of factors at play. Our BELF is low 60's and our service beats most by a long shot.

The other component is cargo. EK are aggressively pursuing the express shippers. FDX said a number of months ago a that they would be using commercial lift more in Asia going forward.

Many times on the walk around I see DHL stickers on the pallets.

Since 1985 EK have lost money once.

Interesting times ahead. Wouldn't bet against them.

fv
fv,

The city pairings make little sense. If the cargo between those cities is so profitable, throw an Atlas 74F or one of your 777Fs on it. Other than holidays, those routes probably will be very light.

As far as profitability, EK does well. Since that is the case, how about quit asking for discounts on 777s from the ExIm Bank? Do you need them? Luckily DL and ALPA forced the Bank in court to report each discount and why it was given, getting rid of the mystery. You can always ask for discounts from the manufacturer, but the ExIm Bank is supposed to help "poor" countries buy expensive stuff, like 777s. And who co-signed your loan for $30 Billion worth of 100 A380s? Who can afford that? Throw in 200 777s, and that would cause any normal airline to have crushing debt. Hmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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Shrek

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fv,

The city pairings make little sense. If the cargo between those cities is so profitable, throw an Atlas 74F or one of your 777Fs on it. Other than holidays, those routes probably will be very light.

As far as profitability, EK does well. Since that is the case, how about quit asking for discounts on 777s from the ExIm Bank? Do you need them? Luckily DL and ALPA forced the Bank in court to report each discount and why it was given, getting rid of the mystery. You can always ask for discounts from the manufacturer, but the ExIm Bank is supposed to help "poor" countries buy expensive stuff, like 777s. And who co-signed your loan for $30 Billion worth of 100 A380s? Who can afford that? Throw in 200 777s, and that would cause any normal airline to have crushing debt. Hmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Nice threat identification. THIS is the biggest battle of our careers. Many of us don't even know it yet.
 

General Lee

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Nice threat identification. THIS is the biggest battle of our careers. Many of us don't even know it yet.
Well, that depends. Most of our profitable INTL routes are between slot controlled airports, or airports with little extra gate space. Look at what Emirates has to do, choose far flung city pairs and HOPE they stick. Birmingham, England to Boston? Huhhhh? What??? Manchester to Miami? Maybe on cruise days the flights could be full, but that's about it.

We have to watch EK closely, especially if they try to fly from Asia or Australia to the US, although countries like China or Japan don't want to hurt their own airlines, so it's unlikely. Also, EK is not a part of an alliance,(other than their deal with Qantas) which puts them at a disadvantage Worldwide for local feed and INTL connections. The people who need to worry most are the European Airlines. EK really hurts the local European carriers by offering connections through Dubai to India/Pakistan and SE Asia and Australia. No wonder some countries restrict Emirates on how many cities they can serve, and some countries like Austria and Canada restrict the number of flights per week. Emirates and Dubai want to offer reciprocal flights between countries, but airlines like Lufthansa and Austrian can't fill more than a plane per day to Dubai, whereas EK mainly uses Dubai as a transit hub---no wonder they want 10 flights per day to France, which carry people from all over. Air France can fill one flight, but not as many people want to STOP in the Sandpit. And the EK people call it unfair! Funny stuff.

So, they definitely need to be watched, but Americans won't go through Dubai to get to Asia or Europe. Too far. The Europeans on the otherhand, need to make sure there is more of a level playing field, it isn't balanced at all right now.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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Flyer1015

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Oh so it's okay for NWA (Delta now) and United to fly form Tokyo NRT to just about every major city in Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Manila, Shanghai, Bangkok, list goes on) because Japan lost the war, but Emirates wanting to fly from Europe to the USA would be wrong? How about we pull our pilots out from the Japan to Asian markets before we start going off on Emirates pilots that are soon going to fly from Europe to the USA.
 

KarmaPolice

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Nice threat identification. THIS is the biggest battle of our careers. Many of us don't even know it yet.
Oh so it's okay for NWA (Delta now) and United to fly form Tokyo NRT to just about every major city in Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Manila, Shanghai, Bangkok, list goes on) because Japan lost the war, but Emirates wanting to fly from Europe to the USA would be wrong? How about we pull our pilots out from the Japan to Asian markets before we start going off on Emirates pilots that are soon going to fly from Europe to the USA.
Yes you a hole. Because this is our country with jobs staffed by your neighbors who pay for whatever job you have indirectly. When we finally look out for each other things will start getting better for all. Including you.

Call me a redneck but I prioritize jobs for our economy first. Is that so crazy?
 
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GogglesPisano

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Yay! Another nail in the coffin of this once-great profession. And American pilots on this site are happily cheering on its demise.
 

Jiminmem

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Wow, I don't think any US Major thinks those city pairings could be profitable, or they would have tried it. I think you guys should also try Newcastle to St. Louis, and Southampton to Pensacola. Go for it! Yes!


Bye Bye---General Lee
I'd be careful with those generalizations. Didn't people say that about SWA in the early 80's.
 

fareview

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Agreed on some of the city pairs mentioned - don't make sense.

But if you were to take CDG-LAX for example, this is one of the higher yielding routes for AF. From what I can gather on a thread on Airliners.net, EK has the rights and it is only operated by AF.

fv
 

8sugarsugar

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Hub busting is the whole reason to launch out of Birmingham and Manchester. Heathrow is full. I think it will be very successful. G.L. seems to be the only one laughing at the concept while B.A., Virgin, and some US Majors are crapping their trousers.
 

Jetjockey

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Gotta love the Sheik's cheerleaders....go team! Allahu Akbar,......and a sim sala bid shout out to the Sahib.
 

General Lee

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Oh so it's okay for NWA (Delta now) and United to fly form Tokyo NRT to just about every major city in Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Manila, Shanghai, Bangkok, list goes on) because Japan lost the war, but Emirates wanting to fly from Europe to the USA would be wrong? How about we pull our pilots out from the Japan to Asian markets before we start going off on Emirates pilots that are soon going to fly from Europe to the USA.
You mean the fifth freedom routes won after WWII? Japan didn't have airlines immediately after WWII, and allowed NW and Pan Am to have the rights while they built up their own. NWA actually had rights out of Haneda airport in downtown Tokyo, but were moved to Narita in the 70's I believe. DL actually had a Frankfurt hub also, bought through the Pan Am asset buy. (Which was later given up unfortunately). Pan Am kept the air bridge open between Frankfurt and West Berlin. What again has EK done for the US, and where could they set up a hub big enough with available gate space? I think Flyer 1015 you are just aiming for something, and totally missing.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Agreed on some of the city pairs mentioned - don't make sense.

But if you were to take CDG-LAX for example, this is one of the higher yielding routes for AF. From what I can gather on a thread on Airliners.net, EK has the rights and it is only operated by AF.

fv
Air Tahiti Nui also flies a daily A340, btw. But, most of the AF flights contain connections through CDG, as well as locals. If EK does add CDG to LAX, I am sure AF and maybe other Skyteam airlines will add flights, and clog the route. Gate space is also very limited at most major US airports, and EK adding Birmingham to Boston and Manchester to Miami shows other larger cities (in both the US and England) may be full. Those routes just seem like darts were thrown blindfolded. Even Milan to JFK is interesting, since 3 other airlines with connectability in the US already fly it. Hmmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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Furloughed80

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The primary reason EK is pushing for Europe-N.A. trans-atlantic routes and Asia-N.A. trans-pac routes is because Dubai is almost maxed out as a connection point. Not in terms of capacity, but because there are a finite number of destinations in the world that you can connect through Dubai. This next step in the 'evolution' of EK will be much more challenging for them and is far from a sure thing. Their growth rate in the near future will be drastically slower than it was in the 2000's. What does this mean for your typical EK pilot? Probably a reduction in T&Cs and more abuse from EK management. As EK's need for pilots abates and while there is a long line of pilots from the world willing to accept a position at EK, there is no reason to offer a very competitive 'package' anymore.
 

fareview

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You ask the question: "What has EK done for the US?"

It is the single largest customer for the B777 in the world. Boeing employs 175,000 with another 50,000 related.

Great for American jobs

fv
 
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