EMB Phenom 300

[GVFlyer]

a better flight is to take off from a 4000ft strip at MTOW and climb straight to 470, clear the weather without a step, have to pull the throttles back within 5 min to prevent overspeed, and travel 1800 NM non stop. The Soverign rules!

Although the Sovereign will take off in 3,580 feet at it's max T/O weight of 30,000 lbs, it will only climb to FL410 at that weight.

Once reaching FL410 Normal Cruise is a somewhat anemic Mach 0.72. Long Range Cruise is a clearly pathetic M 0.67.

Mmo is limited to M0.80 due to the Sovereign's unboosted flight controls.

I think I remember a flight that didn't turn out so well from a couple of guys trying to get to 410 in a EMB145.

That was Pinnacle Airlines Flight 3701, a Bombardier Canadair CRJ-200 Regional Jet on a ferry flight from Little Rock to MSP, where the pilots attempted to do an unscripted envelope expansion and inflight engine welding test flight.


GV






~

 

[LegacyDriver]

"Unscripted envelope expansion...inflight engine welding."

LOL

GV you have a way with words! LOL.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Lipstick on a pig.

That's your OPINION and you are welcome to it. But the FACTS do not support your rhetoric. The people who own them and fly them like 'em. A bunch of anonymous naysayers on a website don't affect sales much I would think and hope.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Lipstick on a pig.

That's your OPINION and you are welcome to it. But the FACTS do not support your rhetoric. The people who own them and fly them like 'em. A bunch of anonymous naysayers on a website don't affect sales much I would think and hope.

 

[Groundpounder]

Although the Sovereign will take off in 3,580 feet at it's max T/O weight of 30,000 lbs, it will only climb to FL410 at that weight.

GV

Only? I'm happy when we make it to FL350 in the C550 at MTOW.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

fair enough. time will tell.

I guess I also want to see some good competition for the Eclipse. I'd hate to see them be the "first to market" 800lb gorilla in that segment of the industry so I am rooting on Cessna and Embraer as that will foster good competition in that sector. Apparently Avocet, Safire, and Century have all closed up shop which leaves those others as the big 3 now.

Neal, I know you have posted here for a long time. Does your profile mean you got the flowthrough from COEX to the mainline?

If so, congrats!

The XJT/CAL Flow-Through Agreement was terminated back in April of 2002 when XJT was spun off by CAL. I started class 3 weeks ago and was hired through the normal hiring process (Like most hired at CAL in the past year, I had some strong recommendations).

I fight like mad to get on that 777 PHNL service when repositioning for flights through Hawaii. Hands down best First Class of any US carrier.

Yea, I've sat in BusinessFirst internationally a few times. It sure is nice. Doesn't happen often for non-revs but when it does, what a pleasure. I never quite understood what all the hype was about with respect to the international BF product until I experienced it.

Are you based at HPN? I might be confusing you with someone else. PM me if so.

-Neal

 

[LegacyDriver]

But don't you think all these VLJ manufacturers are just going to beat each other senseless with nobody coming out on top?

Adam, Safire, Eclipse, Cessna, Embraer.... On and on and on the list goes... I just saw *ANOTHER* new one make its first flight recently, so the list just grows.

I don't see how anyone can make a profit out of this segment.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

But don't you think all these VLJ manufacturers are just going to beat each other senseless with nobody coming out on top?

Adam, Safire, Eclipse, Cessna, Embraer.... On and on and on the list goes... I just saw *ANOTHER* new one make its first flight recently, so the list just grows.

I don't see how anyone can make a profit out of this segment.

Well Safire is no longer. I view Eclipse, Cessna, and Embraer as the real contenders despite the fact that Adam will be delivering A700's before Cessna and Embraer will be in delivery mode. That said, what I know about the Adam just doesn't really impress me. The other first flight you heard about is the ATG Javelin. Similar yet REALLY different obviously. That company will do really well in their little niche, both to rich CEO types as well as to frugal Air Forces around the world. I think the only way any of them will make money is on volume...and so far Eclipse is leading that race in a BIG way.

-Neal

 

[LegacyDriver]

There's another one I saw..... I forget the name but it has intakes on TOP of the fuselage and is a single engine jet. I recall they said it had some sort of minor problem on the first flight.

G-V probably knows this one.


Venture???

 

[BluDevAv8r]

There's another one I saw..... I forget the name but it has intakes on TOP of the fuselage and is a single engine jet. I recall they said it had some sort of minor problem on the first flight.

G-V probably knows this one.

Sounds like the Vantage or the Diamond Jet (same people that make the Katana up in Canada). I think the D-Jet will do well...but is in somewhat of a different league than the Eclipse, etc.

-Neal

 

[LegacyDriver]

Vantage. That's it.

I was thining Venture or some other "V" word.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Vantage. That's it.

I was thining Venture or some other "V" word.

I'm pretty sure the Vantage program is over too...but I could be wrong.

-Neal

 

[GVFlyer]

Eviation Jets has purchased the rights to the Vantage E-120 project and is trying to bring it to market as a twin jet powered by two Williams F44's.

You guys shouldn't discount the Adam 700. A friend of mine is the VP Flight Ops for Adam and he asked me to do a third party handling qualities evaluation of the jet. It's an honest airplane with a bigger cabin that the Eclipse.

GV

 

[LegacyDriver]

I won't count Adam out. The airplane looks to be a very interesting exercise in adaptive evolution. They seem to have gone for safe handling from the get go on that plane (A500 and A700).

As for the Embraer, I just got some info from one of my inside guys....and it appears my pessimism was unwarranted.

- The Phenom just landed 50 firm and 50 options in Geneva with REAL deposits in hand.

- Legacy is now up to 75 units IN SERVICE. Production line was ramped up to improve delivery positions and they are still sold out through Q3 '07. I will have to ask for the new production rate.

- The Legacy I know that just sold on the used market went for more than 8% over original purchase price (with a lot of hours on it). That seems to support the limited used market trend for the Legacy (there haven't been that many changing hands because the owners like them).

I think that's about it.

We can all meet at London City Airport to discuss it. But, last I heard (maybe I am wrong) the G-Whiz crowd will have to hop in my Legacy to land there. You don't have steep approach certification do you?

 

[SabreFlyR]

As for the Embraer, I just got some info from one of my inside guys....and it appears my pessimism was unwarranted.

- The Phenom just landed 50 firm and 50 options in Geneva with REAL deposits in hand.

I think if you check further that order is for the 100 not the 300.
Like I said earlier we gave it a serious look and one of the factors that made us decide against the 300 was the avionics package. It appeals to the 172 owner flown group but has a lot of short comings for a corporate operator.

If this plane fails it will be because of marketing.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I will double check.

Marketing is certainly important, but one thing about Embraer that I respect: they don't make promises they canth keep. If they say an airplane will do X it will do X (or X and a little more).

 

[421Driver]

The D-Jet is built by Diamond, headquartered in Austria. London, ON (CYXU) is the North American HQ where the flight testing has begun.

I've seen the inside of the A700 demonstrator, the 421 I fly has a bigger cabin and bigger windows (not to say it's a better plane in any respect), hate to see what the inside of an Eclipse looks like.

Don't forget about Sino Swearingen, and the new lightweight wonder, the Spectrum with its "less than optimum" pitch qualities. At least they're honest.

 

[mzaharis]

Eviation Jets has purchased the rights to the Vantage E-120 project and is trying to bring it to market as a twin jet powered by two Williams F44's.

Which will be designed, certified, and built in - you guessed it - Brazil!

 

[LegacyDriver]

The Eclipse was......well.......interesting on the inside.

I thought a 152 looked more complicated up front.

I also was reminded of the old four-place pony cars where the rear seat was more for insurance breaks than people.

 

[CallmeJB]

The Embraer quality on Regional Airline legs only proves the soundness of the basic design. The airplane gets pounded into the ground daily and keeps going without complaint. In the corporate world this airplane isn't even breaking a sweat, and there is no dedicated corporate jet around that can take "Regional Airline" abuse...

Uh, Challenger? I pound the stretch version into the ground daily! :smash: