Electronic Log Book Advice and CrewTrac

Zephyrhills

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
21
Total Time
1
I am thinking of making the switch from my faithful little 'Red Book' that has been a part of my velcro-flapped pocket pilot shirt for 10 years now, to the modern electronic version. This is a huge leap for me, and I have no idea what I even need to get to make this work.

Is there such a thing as an electronic logbook that syncs with CrewTrac (AirTran version if it matters) whereas at the end of each month, I can sync my electronic logbook with CrewTrac to automatically capture Actual Block Times, Ship #, etc...so all I have to manually enter is who flew the leg, IFR, and night?

Do most of you use a PDA to keep track of your times, by typing in data for each leg (Block, IFR, Night, etc)?

I'd like to avoid having to carry around a PDA if it is possible for my laptop to sync with CrewTrac at the end of each month.

Does any of this even make any sense???
 

colorado418

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
128
Total Time
13,000
LogBook Pro

Try Logbook Pro. I think that it will do what you want. You can download it and every function will work for 50 entries. Then if you want more, you have to buy it. http://www.logbookpro.com/.

If you think about doing it. PM me and I will give you some help.
 

Zephyrhills

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
21
Total Time
1
I downloaded and tried LogbookPro and the Airline Pilot Daily Aviation Log add-on. The Airline Pilot add-on is only for a PDA, and doesn't help with the main LogbookPro software. It seems that with this add-on, you can 'cut and paste' your schedule from CrewTrac into your PDA...not quite what I am looking to do. The LogbookPro software doesn't sync with CrewTrac at all, from what I can tell, outside of cutting and pasting your schedule from CrewTrac to a PDA.

Bummer.
 
Last edited:

UALjan15

Uniform Swapper
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Posts
257
Total Time
5000 +
Zephyrhills said:
I downloaded and tried LogbookPro and the Airline Pilot Daily Aviation Log add-on. The Airline Pilot add-on is only for a PDA, and doesn't help with the main LogbookPro software. I seems that with this add-on, you can 'cut and paste' your schedule from CrewTrac into your PDA...not quite what I am looking to do. The LogbookPro software doesn't sync with CrewTrac at all, from what I can tell, outside of cutting and pasting your schedule from CrewTrac to a PDA.
Zephyr

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are trying to do, but I will tell you how I use the two programs. I am very happy with them.

APDL is my main program for day-to-day ops. When I get a trip, I cut and paste it from Maestro (sounds like your CrewTrac) into the APDL schedule importer. This zaps the trip into my PDA, and I go fly. I enter my actual block times, A/C, crew, categories, etc as I fly each leg. The APDL does a pretty good job of tracking anything that an airline pilot would wish to keep track of while working your month.

A couple of times a month, I plug the PDA into the home PC and do a data dump into Logbook Pro. This is a very simple synchronization, not a cut and paste job. I don't do much with it once it is in LBP, but it serves to back up the data on my PDA, and if I have to dust off the interview suit again, LBP is where I will print my logbook from.

You can PM me if you want any help.
DR
 

radarlove

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Posts
677
Total Time
years
I tried Logbook pro (I still have the original download, $45 or something) and after a couple of three-hour sessions, I gave up. It's really just a glorified database/spreadsheet program and it simply took too long to enter stuff from all of my old logbooks.

That said, making the decision to start now (and not enter all your old logbooks) might make it an easier move. The output is sharp looking, but there's no way for endorsements to be entered. That's not a big deal if you don't need them, but again, going back and transferring makes it impossible.

I tried a PDA version and gave up after the second day. It's a lot easier just to enter by hand (regular logbook) or by keyboard (computer logbook) than it is to use a PDA. In fact, although the idea sounds good, I have yet to meet anyone who actually uses a PDA daily to keep their times. Just too much of a hassle.

In the end, I think a leather Jeppesen logbook with careful entries is the best way to go.
 

Truckdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Posts
976
Total Time
5000
I have had LBPRO on my desktop for years and it works great. Got a Treo a few months back and got the LBPRO PDA version. It totally sucks and I wouldn't even waste my time with their PDA Version. It is expensive and is probably the worst PDA program I have ever seen. It doens't work on most PDA's without an extra program that runs $25. They do however own APDL which is the program with the cut and paste version of the schedule importer. It is very expensive and the customer service that they offer at that company is horrible. I would steer totally clear of any product from Logbook Pro or the APDL program. The APDL program isn't that bad but they are on my boycot list due to a customer service issue that basically cost me $75 for stuff I did not need and they wouldn't return my money because "you can try it out for free before you buy it". Watch it when you are buying stuff from them because they will load you up with crap that is useless and then not refund your money like a reputable company should do.
 

Zephyrhills

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
21
Total Time
1
UALjan15 said:
Zephyr

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are trying to do, but I will tell you how I use the two programs. I am very happy with them.

APDL is my main program for day-to-day ops. When I get a trip, I cut and paste it from Maestro (sounds like your CrewTrac) into the APDL schedule importer. This zaps the trip into my PDA, and I go fly. I enter my actual block times, A/C, crew, categories, etc as I fly each leg. The APDL does a pretty good job of tracking anything that an airline pilot would wish to keep track of while working your month.

A couple of times a month, I plug the PDA into the home PC and do a data dump into Logbook Pro. This is a very simple synchronization, not a cut and paste job. I don't do much with it once it is in LBP, but it serves to back up the data on my PDA, and if I have to dust off the interview suit again, LBP is where I will print my logbook from.

You can PM me if you want any help.
DR

Perhaps what I am trying to do is not yet available...

I do not want to carry around a PDA with me on my flights. I am trying to get away from logging times after each leg, be it in a PDA or my trusty ol' Red Book.

I was hoping to find a logbook program that would 'sync' with our company's CrewTrac (Sabre), whereas all of my flights would be down-loadable into a logbook format. All I would have to enter is the stuff that CrewTrac doesn't include (Night, IFR, Who Flew, etc).
 

InTransit

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Posts
69
Total Time
4000
Zephyrhills said:
Perhaps what I am trying to do is not yet available...
From the research that I've made, LBPro appears to be the program with the most extensive options for syncing schedules and saving time. No programs sync with Sabre...yet, from what I can tell. I think you would be impressed with the efficiency of LBPro however - it just takes some time to learn.
 

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
UALjan15 said:
Zephyr

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are trying to do, but I will tell you how I use the two programs. I am very happy with them.

APDL is my main program for day-to-day ops. When I get a trip, I cut and paste it from Maestro (sounds like your CrewTrac) into the APDL schedule importer. This zaps the trip into my PDA, and I go fly. I enter my actual block times, A/C, crew, categories, etc as I fly each leg. The APDL does a pretty good job of tracking anything that an airline pilot would wish to keep track of while working your month.

A couple of times a month, I plug the PDA into the home PC and do a data dump into Logbook Pro. This is a very simple synchronization, not a cut and paste job. I don't do much with it once it is in LBP, but it serves to back up the data on my PDA, and if I have to dust off the interview suit again, LBP is where I will print my logbook from.

You can PM me if you want any help.
DR
How do you cut and paste from maestro? I can only do it from WBid and it doesn't download the hotels or the start and finish times. They have to be inputted by hand. Do you mean Moostro?
 

scotts

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Posts
83
Total Time
8000+
radarlove said:
I tried Logbook pro (I still have the original download, $45 or something) and after a couple of three-hour sessions, I gave up. ...

I tried a PDA version and gave up after the second day. ...I have yet to meet anyone who actually uses a PDA daily to keep their times.

Just too much of a hassle.

In the end, I think a leather Jeppesen logbook with careful entries is the best way to go.
Well...

I've been using LBP since '98, and I have kept it updated since then (many updates since the original). I've been using APDL daily on my Palm Zire PDA since May. I agree that it takes some effort to get the program up to speed, but IMHO it takes effort to do it the manual way on paper. Once I had it set up, I have found the effort to be minimal to keep it updated. One reason it is easier for me now is because of APDL. I import my schedule onto my PDA and then all I have to enter manually is the tail number and the actual block times. When I get home I hotsync to LBP and the data is there ready to be used as I see fit.

I used to use an LRB and master logbook. I am firmly convinced there is no easier way to keep up with my logbook than with the combination of LBP and APDL.

If you don't have any concerns about attending interviews, you don't need to make any initial entries in LBP. Just get it and APDL set up and start importing your trips and do your hotsyncing. Again, IMHO it doesn't get any simpler or easier.

As far as a program where you can import your schedule at the end of the month - I haven't heard of any such program. If you are proficient with spreadsheets or other file formats you might be able to save your data as an Excel file and import into LBP. That is something that I'm not up to speed on as I have never needed to do it this way.

Try sending an email to Neal Culiner at NC Software asking if it is possible to do this. If anyone would know, it would be Neal.

My 2 cents...worth what you paid for it!
 
Last edited:

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
radarlove said:
I tried Logbook pro (I still have the original download, $45 or something) and after a couple of three-hour sessions, I gave up. It's really just a glorified database/spreadsheet program and it simply took too long to enter stuff from all of my old logbooks.

That said, making the decision to start now (and not enter all your old logbooks) might make it an easier move. The output is sharp looking, but there's no way for endorsements to be entered. That's not a big deal if you don't need them, but again, going back and transferring makes it impossible.

I tried a PDA version and gave up after the second day. It's a lot easier just to enter by hand (regular logbook) or by keyboard (computer logbook) than it is to use a PDA. In fact, although the idea sounds good, I have yet to meet anyone who actually uses a PDA daily to keep their times. Just too much of a hassle.

In the end, I think a leather Jeppesen logbook with careful entries is the best way to go.
The APDL is a complete replacement from the little red book. It does all the math for you and downloads your schedule right to your PDA. No need to do anything but enter your block times. Any pilot who has a PDA should make the switch.
 

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
Truckdriver said:
I have had LBPRO on my desktop for years and it works great. Got a Treo a few months back and got the LBPRO PDA version. It totally sucks and I wouldn't even waste my time with their PDA Version. It is expensive and is probably the worst PDA program I have ever seen. It doens't work on most PDA's without an extra program that runs $25. They do however own APDL which is the program with the cut and paste version of the schedule importer. It is very expensive and the customer service that they offer at that company is horrible. I would steer totally clear of any product from Logbook Pro or the APDL program. The APDL program isn't that bad but they are on my boycot list due to a customer service issue that basically cost me $75 for stuff I did not need and they wouldn't return my money because "you can try it out for free before you buy it". Watch it when you are buying stuff from them because they will load you up with crap that is useless and then not refund your money like a reputable company should do.

I agree the customer service does suck. Actually, I think it's just a one man company. It took me several e-mails to figure out the binder he sells is just a normal binder with a hundred doller price tag instead of a landscape style binder to look like a traditional logbook. Plus, he charges ridiculous amounts of money for the "special" paper for the logbook which you can get at Office Depot for 1/10 of the price he charges.
 

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
Zephyrhills said:
Perhaps what I am trying to do is not yet available...

I do not want to carry around a PDA with me on my flights. I am trying to get away from logging times after each leg, be it in a PDA or my trusty ol' Red Book.

I was hoping to find a logbook program that would 'sync' with our company's CrewTrac (Sabre), whereas all of my flights would be down-loadable into a logbook format. All I would have to enter is the stuff that CrewTrac doesn't include (Night, IFR, Who Flew, etc).

That's something you would have to design yourself and get the rights from AirTran to be able to download it directly to your home PC
 

Floyd R. Turbo

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6500+
Zephyrhills said:
Perhaps what I am trying to do is not yet available...

I do not want to carry around a PDA with me on my flights. I am trying to get away from logging times after each leg, be it in a PDA or my trusty ol' Red Book.

I was hoping to find a logbook program that would 'sync' with our company's CrewTrac (Sabre), whereas all of my flights would be down-loadable into a logbook format. All I would have to enter is the stuff that CrewTrac doesn't include (Night, IFR, Who Flew, etc).

I think you will end up carrying the PDA, or an LRB.

Isn't the whole purpose (or at least a major purpose) of the LRB or PDA to serve as a backup to the records the company keeps? If you only download stuff from the company, you are vulnerable to system crashes or any mistakes they might make--not saying they will, but it's possible. 99.999% of the time the company records are accurate, but if that other .001% results in unwanted attention or a denied trip trade or (my personal favorite) an extra week of OE, then it's worth it to have your own backup.

When I worked at a domestic carrier, I used ADPL and loved it. I could synch all the data to my laptop and cut and paste to my Excel logbook during my commute home after each trip, and at the end of the month I had a neat one-page summary to compare to the records the company left in my V-file each month. I haven't used LogBook Pro, so I can't comment one way or another on it, but ADPL by itself was outstanding.

Now I'm flying supplemental, and I use Excel for everything. Someone mentioned binders. I just use the legal sized binder covers you can get from Office Depot, and my logbook is formatted to print on legal paper. It is formatted to look just like the big black master super duper pro pilot logbooks you can get from Sporty's, etc.
 

InTransit

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Posts
69
Total Time
4000
SWAPoolie said:
I agree the customer service does suck. Actually, I think it's just a one man company. It took me several e-mails to figure out the binder he sells is just a normal binder with a hundred doller price tag instead of a landscape style binder to look like a traditional logbook. Plus, he charges ridiculous amounts of money for the "special" paper for the logbook which you can get at Office Depot for 1/10 of the price he charges.
The binders and paper come from MGO.ent, whoever that is. Anyhow, I think it's a separate company. Anyone find similar quality binders through a cheaper source?
 

FatesPawn

HVAC Commander
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Posts
237
Total Time
9000+
SWAPoolie said:
How do you cut and paste from maestro? I can only do it from WBid and it doesn't download the hotels or the start and finish times. They have to be inputted by hand. Do you mean Moostro?
He flys for AWA - they use maestro as well.

But, I'm curious how the maestro-APDL-Logbook Pro syncronization works as well. I'm dying to automate.

Fate.
 

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
InTransit said:
The binders and paper come from MGO.ent, whoever that is. Anyhow, I think it's a separate company. Anyone find similar quality binders through a cheaper source?
I only found one source on the net that had "Landscape" binders. You can get them from any outlet that sells legal recording supplies. However, they only come in puke green. I guess lawyers like puke green. I believe the MGO.ent is owned by the same NC guy. His binders are just standard 8 1/2 X 11 with a leather cover. It sucks if you like the traditional jeppessen look.
 

SWAPoolie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
101
Total Time
6000
FatesPawn said:
He flys for AWA - they use maestro as well.

But, I'm curious how the maestro-APDL-Logbook Pro syncronization works as well. I'm dying to automate.

Fate.
Oh, well you cannot cut and paste from the SWA maestro. I wish we had a windows based system because maestro blows. However, Cetrix is much more secure than windows environments so I can see why they picked it.

You can cut and paste from wbid but it doesn't have the functionality that other scheduling programs have. I e-mailed NC and they said they will work on it if I send them a schedule. I'm checking with SWA if it's okay to do that so NC can improve the importing of the schedule. The APDL will also calculate pay with rigs but since we are the only company that doesn't use an hourly based system that function is useless. I don't know if that will ever be programed since it doesn't seem many SWA pilots use automation. They don't use PDAs either....:)
 
Last edited:
Top