EK to IAD

[AMRCostUnit]

But not the pay. Over at EK, Starting FOs bring home about 11k a month tax free if you take the housing allowance. I dont even think VA capts beat that by much

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Can you live decently over there outside of company housing? Is it more cost effective?

 

[777forever]

Can you live decently over there outside of company housing? Is it more cost effective?

Everyone I have spoken to has had money left over after housing expenses

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[Varmint]

Can you live decently over there outside of company housing? Is it more cost effective?

Short answer...yes.

Long answer. There are a lot of things to consider when moving out of company accom. Here are a few.

1. You can never go back to company accom.
2. DEWA (water and elect) seems to like to jack up the rates for expats and implement fees. You are basically paying for the local's free water and elect. Where are these fees going to be in 5-10 years if you are still here.
3. Rent is low right now, how much is it going to increase in the next few years and will the allowance increase as well? Are you going to be able to maintain your quality of living if the allowance is not increased but your rent goes up.
4. If you buy property, do you really want to be tied to the area or do you want to be able to make a quick get-away if necessary.

5. FLIP side...taking the allowance is free money and if you pay for a house with it, it is just icing on the cake.....so if you have to up and leave it, nothing gained nothing lost really. If you leave normally though you can sell the house and take the lump sum.

 

[AMRCostUnit]

Good info..thanks. I like the idea of taking the $$ and living cheaper to shore up the FO pay, but the company accom would shield you from local market forces. I'd be keeping a household going here and the extra savings would help...the gang here isn't too keen on moving. I realize this isn't a commuting operation so they'd have to just deal with it.

It all hinges on how deep the cuts AMR gets...EK is looking better every day...

 

[Varmint]

Latest intel that I am hearing is that there are no more Boeing courses for the near future. How long that will last remains to be seen.

 

[777forever]

Latest intel that I am hearing is that there are no more Boeing courses for the near future. How long that will last remains to be seen.

Wow how come?

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[Fly-By-Cable]

Latest intel that I am hearing is that there are no more Boeing courses for the near future. How long that will last remains to be seen.

Two part question

1. My understanding is that new hires go to the 330. After 6 months they get dual qualed on the 340, and after a year they can go to the 380. Is this correct?

2. With Emirates time on type requirement for upgrade, how does it work for the airbus. Can an fo with most time spent on the 380 lets say, upgrade in the 330?

Thanks

 

[Varmint]

Wow how come?

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They are concentrating on airbus hiring now and for DEC's. I think the need for airbus pilots was underestimated and now they are having to play catch up. We are fairly well staffed for FO's on the Boeing side now but I see that changing fairly quickly as the new routes come online in the next few months.

 

[Varmint]

Two part question

1. My understanding is that new hires go to the 330. After 6 months they get dual qualed on the 340, and after a year they can go to the 380. Is this correct?

2. With Emirates time on type requirement for upgrade, how does it work for the airbus. Can an fo with most time spent on the 380 lets say, upgrade in the 330?

Thanks

1. Yes, basically correct. I have heard one year to qual on the 340 but that may have changed. Notice below though, if you chose to go to the 380 and then upgrade on the 330 rather than just sticking it out a little longer on the 380 for upgrade on that, make sure you get at least 700 hours on the 330 before making your initial move to the 380.

The minimum requirements for upgrade to command on the Airbus
A330/340 and B777 fleets for A380 First Officers are:
-6,000 hours Total Time
-2,500 hours Emirates operating time and 3 years’ service in
Emirates, on any fleet
-700 hours Emirates operating time on the fleet on which the upgrade
is planned
-2 years from the date of successful completion of initial PPC on the
A380.

Minimum Experience for A380 Command on Type
-6,000 hours Total Time
-3,000 EK hours of which 2,500 hours must be on EK A380

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

1. Yes, basically correct. I have heard one year to qual on the 340 but that may have changed. Notice below though, if you chose to go to the 380 and then upgrade on the 330 rather than just sticking it out a little longer on the 380 for upgrade on that, make sure you get at least 700 hours on that aircraft at Emirates before making the move to the 380.

The minimum requirements for upgrade to command on the Airbus
-A330/340 and B777 fleets for A380 First Officers are:
-6,000 hours Total Time
-2,500 hours Emirates operating time and 3 years’ service in
Emirates, on any fleet
-700 hours Emirates operating time on the fleet on which the upgrade
is planned
-2 years from the date of successful completion of initial PPC on the
A380.

Minimum Experience for A380 Command on Type
-6,000 hours Total Time
-3,000 EK hours of which 2,500 hours must be on EK A380

So then the 330/340 are counted as same type for that 700 hr requirement? Thanks again.

 

[Varmint]

So then the 330/340 are counted as same type for that 700 hr requirement? Thanks again.

Good question. I will have to defer that to one of my airbus colleagues but I believe that to be correct....same type.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Good question. I will have to defer that to one of my airbus colleagues but I believe that to be correct....same type.

Great. Thanks for the info.

 

[overseas boy]

The 700hours is on either the 330 or 340. Getting CCQ'd onto the 340 is not just a matter of 6months, it is dependant on needing people on the 340. At present with all the movement to the 380 that is a short wait, in the past it has been longer, upto 18 months.
The f/o's on the 380 have now been informed that there is no return to the 330 for upgrade. So they will need to get 2500 hrs on the 380 to be eligible to upgrade on the 380.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

The 700hours is on either the 330 or 340. Getting CCQ'd onto the 340 is not just a matter of 6months, it is dependant on needing people on the 340. At present with all the movement to the 380 that is a short wait, in the past it has been longer, upto 18 months.
The f/o's on the 380 have now been informed that there is no return to the 330 for upgrade. So they will need to get 2500 hrs on the 380 to be eligible to upgrade on the 380.

Thats not good. So if you go to the 380 and the growth stops for that a/c, youre a career FO? Thats a little troublesome to me.

 

[johnsonrod]

Wow - that's like being told you are a career FO on the Concorde... That would suck! :laugh:

Let me remind you that the upgrade at SWA is probably now 20 years for newhires... This profession certainly ain't what it used to be.

 

[overseas boy]

Actually it's like being told that because you went onto the 380 fleet ( some forced) you must now do approx 4 more years in the right seat before you can even have a chance to upgrade assuming you can hold the left seat with all the 330 captains transitioning across.
Meanwhile those able to stay on the 330 as f/o's get to upgrade due to the slots made available by movement to the 380 by already qualified captains.
All the while the 777 f/o's upgrading at 3 years.
it would arguably cost the 380 f/o 100k USD plus in lost earnings compared to his peers within the company.
I really don't care what you say about SWA the f/o's here didn't join SWA so it's irrelevant

 

[johnsonrod]

Overseasboy,

It's called perspective. This airline career blows nowadays - the majors are either bankrupt, furloughing, merging or stagnant. Non-military trained people now have to pay $100-200K to get training to qualify. I just read that Embry Riddle's first year tuition (including flight program cost) is something like $58K per year. Delta is probably the best major at the moment - but it won't hire for another 2-3 years according to my inside sources. SWA and AirTran merging means any newhire today (behind both groups) will likely wait DECADES for a left seat and all the while have to endure 5-6 30-minute turns per day. Great money but no thanks. AA and USAirways may merge and who knows how that could impact the pilot group. Getting on with Fedex is like winning the Mega Millions lotto - very low odds. JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant are all growing but most offer industry average wages/benefits - nothing to brag about. The regionals are all imploding and there is tremendous uncertainty (I should know) given the cost structure and the ever-increasing price of oil (thanks Obama!). Do you get my point?

The airline business has never been so bland or even so negative for those of us in the States. Perhaps a career with a dynamic and growing Middle East carrier would suit people who are looking for a "rewarding" career. Emirates may or may not be the answer for those who actualy get an interview and get hired. Flying the A380 (oh, what a hardship!!!!) would be great for some people because the US does not represent a viable or enjoyable career option anymore... So what if you have to wait an extra 4-5 years to sit in the left seat of the biggest and one of the most advanced aircraft in the world - OH NO - BETTER TO QUIT THE INDUSTRY THAN DO THAT.... Wait 6-7 years total (from FO to Capt) on that fleet to become an A380 Captain - not too bad IMHO. Your opinion might differ and you have that right. From what I have read the 777 pilots could be seeing less of the US in the future if Clark has his way and replaces the 777s with A380s on the US routes in the coming years. So, things can change.

Sure, there are no certainties with Emirates or with any other airline. Emirates could be the worst place in the world for some pilots while others might thoroughly enjoy the international experience and the opportunity to fly the most advanced aircraft out there. Your motivation might not match someone else's motivation or context. This career has become a lot less lucrative and attractive in the last few years. For some people, the prospect of flying the A380 at EK could be far preferrable (even with a wait) than flying a junky 737 domestically for years and years and years. It depends on your situation, your goals and your context. Emirates might or might not be the answer depending on your situation. That's my $0.02.

 

[8sugarsugar]

i wouldn't leave emirates for delta or southwest.

 

[Varmint]

i wouldn't leave emirates for delta or southwest.

ditto....


As far as perspective goes....Overseas is very correct with his comments and irritation with the way things are run over here. It is all about the quality of life and money and sometimes we get the shaft with the introduction of new policies and the DEC issue.

but at the same time.....Johnsonrod is also correct. Guys at US carriers got screwed....even with contracts...during the airline bankruptcies with the subsequent cuts in benefits. That coupled with 10+ years for an upgrade at a major still make Emirates a nice place to be if you can handle the cultural differences over here.

Just my 2 dirhams.

 

[johnsonrod]

ditto....


As far as perspective goes....Overseas is very correct with his comments and irritation with the way things are run over here. It is all about the quality of life and money and sometimes we get the shaft with the introduction of new policies and the DEC issue.

but at the same time.....Johnsonrod is also correct. Guys at US carriers got screwed....even with contracts...during the airline bankruptcies with the subsequent cuts in benefits. That coupled with 10+ years for an upgrade at a major still make Emirates a nice place to be if you can handle the cultural differences over here.

Just my 2 dirhams.

I agree. I am not disagreeing with Overseas so much as I am stating that what people will tolerate is a matter of personal perspective. If people had great choices in the States, maybe working at EK wouldn't even be a consideration. Some people wouldn't last 2 years at EK due to the culture, the exhausting flying/schedule and the lack of any sort of union protection, etc.

I would describe the US airline industry as GRIM. But for those who return to the States, Fedex won't pick you up because of their foreign work rules (certain year limit before you can apply). SWA pays fantastic, but you will be stuck in the right seat for a loooooong time... If you do get picked up by Delta, you will be flying a junky DC9 (maybe 717s soon - yippee!) or MD88 at the very bottom of the list for a long time - expect reserve and relatively low pay for a long time. Spirit, JetBlue and Allegiant will hire you, but you will find wages and certainly health benefits to be mediocre at best. None of the fractionals will hire for long while - so, no jobs there. Several charter carriers have gone Chapter 11 or liquidated including World, Omni, Ryan International and a few others. If you get picked up by Atlas, Southern or Kalitta, you will fly the same sized airplanes as EK but you probably won't make that much more money - and you will be at the bottom of the list. True, you will live in the Obama-controlled United States, but you will have to pay for your housing with the tax-free money you saved at Emirates.

So, if you are lucky enough to be flying the beautiful 777 across the world's skies for EK, you probably should stay for awhile.