EJA=enemy

[Lrjet55]

Some friends of mine just called me the other day with a recorded message from their new company, Flight Options. They played this message from someone in the company in which we are referred to as the Enemy and we weren't thought very highly of. The message rambles on for about 10 minutes and we are basically being trashed to their employees. Now I supposed I am new to the company (EJA) and to the Fractional industry, I wasn't however, aware of such animosity between us and the other fractionals, i.e. Options, Flex Jet... Also do we make it a practice to do this same thing or are we above this (I hope for the latter).

 

[flydog]

What do you think the Packers do in the locker room before a Monday night game?

Sounds like a motivational speech. I dont think FO is about to equip their Beechjets with Sidewinders and engage EJA in mortal air to air combat. Take it with a grain of salt.

They are #2 in the fractional market and EJA is #1. Its a good old fashioned ass kicking contest. Warren Buffet vs Ken Ricci

 

[1900cpt]

You know why we are the "enemy"....because we are the best. We have alot of aircraft coming in and on order, we have the most customers, and from what i can tell the happiest/most satsified customers.

We do not sink to that level....they are probably afraid thier guys are going to jump ship and come to eja. How else are they going to keep their guys happy unless they fill their head whit sh!t about us??? You know darn well that we see the other frac guys on the road and we talk to each other. Do you think any of the eja guys are talking trash about ej....maybe about the pay.....but the contract should take care of that.

All I have heard form the other frac guys is how they get screwed or are unhappy. I also hear that supposedly after are contract is settled, Ricci??( big shot for rta/options) is going to give their guys more......HA!! They may get more now, but they dont have the union(as far as i know) to back tehm up. All they get is broken promises and lines of BS.

So.....of course we are the enemy.

1900cpt/now eja

 

[stingray]

Its unbelibeable all the crap the FO comes up with to try and talk as if FO is such a better company then eja, such as one of the adds in some of the profesiional Business aviation publications with a picture of Ricci or whatever his name is. saying how much safer FO is because there pilots are deicated to a few certian airplanes, the only reason they did this is because of all the different avionic setups in all those used aircraft they have, trying to rectify a unsafe situtation that already existed at fo, also personal attacks on Santullia CEO at EJA.
I know pilots personally at all the fracs and they are fine people, but this is the typical BS crap from management at a company that is pulling stuff out of their a## trying to make their company look better then the company that is dominating this market.
I wished i could remember the publications this add was in so i could give you all a link and you could see for yourselfs

 

[Answerguy]

Can't we all get along?

Part of the message was about Net Jets sending out letters to all the Travel Air Owners trying to get them to leave Flight Options. I don't recall the word enemy being used. But it did sound like Kenn is looking forward to giving NetJets some competition in the future. We are all looking forward to the new marketing strategy that will come out next month. It should be real interesting how the new/used aircraft will be used together. Flight Options does not have Uncle Warren or Tiger Woods to put in our adds so we promote the pilots, corporate culture, and safety. I'm not knocking NetJets advertising but its always the same thing, we are the biggest and best, we started fractional ownership, warren buffett owns us, we fly tiger woods. You would never see an add promoting the pilots, or the pilots pay at Net Jets! Its also a fact that NetJets is losing their market share. It has gone down the last few years and continues to go down. That is ARGUS/US info. Yes, they are growing but not as fast as the others percentage wise. Flight Options has also only been in business for just over 3 years, and now has over 200 aircraft. Very impressive for that short of time. Flight Options also has many owners that have left Net Jets. So the largest? Yes, for now. The best? Let the owners decide that! It will be interesting what happens with growth in the future.
Both are good companies, I'm really happy at Flight Options and look forward to my future with them. I was looking at NetJets the same time I was looking at Options but Netjets still had the FSI sim for 400 bucks, I would have had to pay for the airfare, hotel, rental car, and take 2 days off work, not to mention the 2 year training contract! So just the interview would have set me back about 1500 bucks. Then Flight Options paid for my ticket, hotel, rental car. Was first class from the start! I'm glad to be here!

 

[highflyer]

Slowing down on growth????

Just interviewed with EJA in January and have a class date for mid April. At the interview, our group was told that EJA has over 300 aircrafts currently in operation and one new aircraft delivering approx. every six days, give or take. Someone said there are over 400 a/c's on order and some owners waiting over a year and half just to get their aircraft online due to manufacturer capabilities. I am also confident that Santulli and Buffet have been talking to many of the manufacturers that "had" orders from Avolar customers - to pick up a few earlier. EJA may not be the industry leader right now in pilot pay, but I guarantee you it is in the best interest of the company to take care of the pilots! Best wishes to all of you FO/RTA pilots on your senority list merger and finding your way through the mess after a 51/49 company buyout. Know many who have been there and it isn't easy!!! HF

 

[stingray]

200 planes only by the merge.
Anyways all of us pilots at the fracs should be happy that this market is showing such a huge growth thats why we have so many planes on order. We have more planes on order then we currently have on the line at eja.

Enjoy the job with whatever company you are at, get the most you can(new contract), after all they are paying us for something we love to do! At least most of us do!

 

[EJA Capt]

Re: Can't we all get along?

I have heard KRs message word for word. There is NO mention of Netjets contacting Options owners. However, he is 150% INCORRECT about the statements he made about the Netjets operations center. He stated that there is "no centralized area/room" where the fleet teams operate. Has he BEEN to CMH in the last few years? He is wrong. Most of his previous messages have directed FLT Ops crews to ‘brag" about the good "culture" at Flight Options to competing fractional pilots. Is there a reason this is necessary?
-conclusion….bad cool-aid.


"You would never see an add promoting the pilots, or the pilots pay at Net Jets!"
Why should we? You advertise for owners, the pilots aren’t the ones buying the aircraft?


"Its also a fact that NetJets is losing their market share. It has gone down the last few years and continues to go down. That is ARGUS/US info. "

1. Netjets is using a totally different demographic for an owner base.

2. EJA still holds approx 50% of the market share. The other 50% is shared by 4 (now 3) other fractionals.

3. Percentages of market share are smoke and mirrors. FLT LLC has always advertised themselves as the "fastest growing" fractional. (based on percentage). OK, here is a simple test. Which is growing faster, going from 100 owners to 200 owners in one year, vs. going from 1500 owners to 2000 owners in one year? Yes, the percentage in the first example is growing faster, but who added more owners????

4. Darnell H. Martens Assistant to the Chairman at Flight Options is the co-founder and Vice President of Aviation Research Group/U.S. (ARG/US), and was formerly employed by EJA.
Not exactly an UNBIASED source of information.

5. Why has ARG not listed # of owners added instead of % of growth?

Conclusion- more bad cool-aid.

"Yes, they are growing but not as fast as the others percentage wise. "
-See answer 3 above


"Flight Options also has many owners that have left Net Jets. "
Flight Options has had many PILOTS that left to go to Netjets.

"So the largest? Yes, for now. "
Probably not forever. There will always be more pre-owned aircraft on the market than new, and there will also be more owners that are on a tighter budget.

These are different companies with different motivations. I have met many fine FLT Ops pilots on the road that I enjoyed talking too. But with the information I have gained, I too am happy to be where I am.

There are still a lot of misconceptions about EJA in the industry, perpetuated mainly from people on the outside.


PS….gunfyter
"Our management had the gall to produce recruitment pamphlets bragging about the fact that 3rd year pilots can make $60k per year! And THEY are PROUD of it! 3rd year Citation X Captains running around making $60k! The sad part is its not even true. 3rd year Captains make ONLY $47K. "

The ad (2 years ago) stated 60K after completing 3 years, which would make it 4th year Capt’s pay. It was a play on words, and from my W2 at the time, it's fairly close to accurate. However, I agree with your intent, it is sadly low. But, we know what is coming.

 

[jetwash]

Let management ( EJA FO) get into a war of words. We as pilots get along pretty good on the road. After all, we see each other all the time at the FBO's and hotels.

we have more in common with each other and management has more in common for example

Management ( keep pilots wages low and have them work more)

EJA Pilolts & FO Pilots ( get paid more and work less )


Good luck on your contract at EJA we hope you get everything, then our management will have to open the check book as well.

 

[flyr4hire]

I am always amazed at how so many folks out there get so emotional about who is number one, why their company is better, and on and on and on it goes. One thing is for sure, this emotion and- dare I say it with so many cynics around- loyalty proves that the upper level management for both EJA and FLOPS are doing their jobs well...they are motivating at least a portion of their workforces. Of course upper levvel management looks at their closest competitors as "the enemy"... wouldn't want to work for a company without that kind of leadership, gives me confidence that there is a vision and direction that will ensure continued employment. Reading the ranting and raving of so many folks spewing their "party lines", however, leaves an image in my somewhat small and underdeveloped mind of the little kid wisteling in the dark to ward off the boogy man. Why is it so important to put each other down... does it bolster one's ego and make them feel like maybe they made the right decision? As is posted above, let management haggle and fight these battles amongst themselves. My goal is to keep enjoying this type of flying and I look forward to meeting and chatting with folks that are doing the same... whoever they are with.

 

[EJA Capt]

What war on words? Battles between management? The only words being thrown around so far are Ken Ricci's. My post above never put down Flight Options' pilots or their company. Even R. Santulli is happy to have them in the business. Most of my fellow EJA pilots and myself, have no animosity for Opts pilots.

However, when someone starts making false statements about another company, don't get offended when someone that works for that company stands up to your claims.

I didn't make any claims about pay, working conditions, or who has a better job. I like mine, you like yours. Where's the problem?

I made one point. KR makes inaccurate claims about EJA and I pointed out one of his errors. Besides, what difference is it to KR, and why does he feel it was important to tell his pilots about Netjets flight ops center? I have heard several of KRs weekly messages, and he almost always includes some tidbit about "the competition is talking about us" or "EJA this or that." I find that amusing.

 

[FracPilot]

"Besides, what difference is it to KR, and why does he feel it was important to tell his pilots about Netjets flight ops center? I have heard several of KRs weekly messages, and he almost always includes some tidbit about "the competition is talking about us" or "EJA this or that." I find that amusing."

I find it quite amusing that you listen to our weekly messages. I find it even more amusing that so many people get so worked up over this whole issue.

"I have heard KRs message word for word. There is NO mention of Netjets contacting Options owners."

Oh, by the way - Kenn most certainly did state that Netjets had sent letters to some of our owners. Here it is word for word. Text copies of each weekly announcement are kept on the company website.
------------------------------------
This week Netjets had sent out letters to all of the RTA owners telling them that this couldn’t be pulled off and that we weren’t capable of doing it and that they should reconsider moving to a different program, and they went on with the usual things that they like to say; that they invented the program and that they have more financial capabilities.
---------------------------------------

 

[EJA Capt]

[BI find it quite amusing that.... so many people get so worked up over this whole issue.
------------------------------------
This week Netjets had sent out letters to all of the RTA owners telling them that this couldn’t be pulled off and that we weren’t capable of doing it and that they should reconsider moving to a different program, and they went on with the usual things that they like to say; that they invented the program and that they have more financial capabilities.
--------------------------------------- [/B]

I am far from worked up. I thought I was just having a normal conversation. As far as "so many...worked up." There are only a few EJ responses on this issue.

Thanks for the quote, it must have come from a previous weeks message. Sure, I listen to the message. Everyone on the internet is looking up our union website. Seems fair to me.

All I ask is that when you hear KR say about something about EJ, or any other competitor, take it with a grain of salt. Do some research on your own before drawing conclusions. I have heard several comments made by KR that I know beyond a doubt are not correct.

Maybe Netjets corporate sent out that letter to your owners, maybe they didn't. The only ones that know for sure are your owners.

Fly safe,

 

[LR45JI]

I don't see what the issue is with EJA sending out letters to FO owners! Have you never gotten a call from AT&T after you switched to MCI? It’s called competition and NetJets is just "informing" the FO owners that "there are other options available and a.b.c.d.e. is what we offer." Its simply smart business!! Maybe some owners don't like it but there will be a few that say, "Hey, what else is out there?"

I'm sure EJA has taken some of FO's displeased owners and I'm sure FO has taken some of EJA's displeased owners. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't please everyone and every company has a few un-happy owners. Why wouldn't we tap into the few owners that are un-happy at FO?

I've never heard the recording/announcement.....its irrelevant to me and 99% of the other pilots.

As someone posted before me - let the mgmt. deal with that and you and I will fly airplanes and keep our owners as happy as possible to ensure our job security with the highest level of safety. I am happy at EJA, you are happy at FO and someone else is happy at CitaionShares, FlexJet, etc...etc.... Let’s not forget the big picture that we are all still brothers among a small professional community.

The last thing we need is an American/American Eagle syndrome among the ranks of fractional pilots where we get into "mud-slinging" and "I'm better than you...." blah....blah.....blah.....

Just my rambling thoughts.

Fly Safe

 

[niteflyr]

Nothing new...

Like was said, a lot of businesses out there send letters trying to get people to switch companies and explain why they are the best. Even in the frax it has been going on for a while. I know of a couple of companies that regularly search aircraft registrations of other frax companies to find a list of "owners" to solicit by mail. RS at EJA has even gotten them before because of his share he owns in an airplane, but I doubt he is going to switch to anyone else....

 

[ArmyPilot]

Exactly!

LR45JI,

I could not have said it better myself. We all should be happy to have jobs! Plus I don't know to many pilots that dislike being a pilot!

We should all get along, who knows in this industry whats next..... we could all be one big company next week.... you just never know!