EGE question

[fisherpilot]

Right, but what you posted is usless if someone wants to KNOW WHY???? After all, Cat "C" aircraft have been flying in there for weeks with that NOTAM in place. So now its being discussed in this thread as to WHY??? Therefore, its only logical for people/pilots to want to know WHY???? My boss is a former Air Force Fighter pilot, he's got more flight time than I do, if I told him we can't go in there because we are Cat "C"...he would be certain to ask me why can't Cat "C" go in there. Me, not being someone who wants to look like a dummy in front of my boss/experienced combat pilot and just say, "because it says so." I want to learn actually WHY??? More professional that way when I can tell him exactly WHY. Further more, now I can call him to tell him what the deal is tomorrow on my way to the FSDO to get the letter, and also tell him on top of it already.

So I called to find out. The answer is not in the regs and its not going to be found here. There is nothing in the NOTAM about the temp runways width being the reason, it just says that Cat "C" or higher is not allowed. Pilots, all of us, will always continue to learn new things in aviation forever. You, me and everyone who reads this thread just learned that runway widths are the ONLY determining factor for different Category approach speeds for a given runway. Pretty cool, I didn't expect to learn something new today. Alot of my friends go into EGE too, now I can relay the info to them as well.

Its also pretty nice to have found out we can get a letter of authorization from our FSDO to go in if we are able to meet the restriction safely, which you didn't include in your post.

So I actually asked the correct question...WHY?

So we all learned two things.

Might seem like a dumb question, but if we are talking about approach speeds it makes more sense that runway "Length" would be the controlling factor since it takes more energy to stop something moving faster than something slower. I wonder how the FAA came up with that one? Seems like length would have more weight in that restriction than width

I learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info

 

[LJ45]

I read that C and greater approach cat restriction was due to a decrease in the required safety area around the temp runway because of construction. I'll try to find that again!

 

[avbug]

My boss is a former Air Force Fighter pilot, he's got more flight time than I do, if I told him we can't go in there because we are Cat "C"...he would be certain to ask me why can't Cat "C" go in there. Me, not being someone who wants to look like a dummy in front of my boss/experienced combat pilot and just say, "because it says so."

What exactly does being a USAF pilot, or having flown in combat, have to do with the price of tea in china, or this NOTAM? Does his experience mean any nore than squat as it relates to this thread, the NOTAM, or your informing him of the NOTAM?

Again, why is meaningless. If you want to go there, the only question is how. How do you do it? Find the authority that issued the NOTAM, and ask if there are exceptions, and once that's done, obtain the exception, if you can.

This isn't exactly rocket science. Again, "why" is irrelevant.

How can you do it? This we know, and it's not a difficult thing. If you find you can't, then you can fall back to asking the meaningless and mundane...which will include "why." You put the cart before the horse, but you still got what you wanted. Be happy. Just be careful about citing everyone who responded as "wrong," because in so doing...the one who's cleary wrong becomes...you.

 

[semperfido]

how? why? it all sounds the same to me...you guys love a good pissing contest.

 

[o2bflyn]

I read that C and greater approach cat restriction was due to a decrease in the required safety area around the temp runway because of construction. I'll try to find that again!

Another factor could be the terrain. On the Eastern (approaching from the east, that is) there is a hill that sticks up and is relatively close to the normal approach to the runway. Maybe they are wooried about people running into that thing if they circle at a higher speed and don't judge the turn properly.

Just a thought.

 

[kingairyahoo]

how? why? it all sounds the same to me...you guys love a good pissing contest.

no...its just one that loves a good pissing contest...ill let ya guess who that is :smash:

 

[LJ45]

Another factor could be the terrain. On the Eastern (approaching from the east, that is) there is a hill that sticks up and is relatively close to the normal approach to the runway. Maybe they are wooried about people running into that thing if they circle at a higher speed and don't judge the turn properly.

Just a thought.

Nope, its a landing restriction. Nothing to do with an IFR approach in this case. If it did have something to do with and IFR approach a FDC NOTAM could be issued and increase minimums or restrict circling for Cat C or greater.

What I am seeking is facts not speculation on how to land a Cat C aircraft legally, like some have be doing Legally or possibly Illegally, at EGE while the NOTAM is in effect.

thanks.

 

[Fly91]

What exactly does being a USAF pilot, or having flown in combat, have to do with the price of tea in china, or this NOTAM? Does his experience mean any nore than squat as it relates to this thread, the NOTAM, or your informing him of the NOTAM?

Apparently you did not comprehend what I said with regards to my boss being an aviation expert.

If he wasn't a professional pilot for the past 20 years I could just tell him that we can't go in because of construction and a temp runway. Your average boss/owner would just say, "uh, well, ok, thanks". But I don't like to just say bullsh1t to my boss. I like to be a fully informed professional pilot. And bosses really like that too. I wanted to be able to actually KNOW....WHY??? this restriction was in place.

Your reasoning is....it says it, thats all you need to know. Thats hilarious.

Again, why is meaningless.

Asking WHY...is everything. How can you say asking a question is meaningless in aviation. We all know people in aviation learn new things almost weekly, whether a small issue or a large issue.

Also, by asking WHY???? Which you are obviously against. I know have a way I can get my boss to the destinations he wants to go. So me asking WHY was just about the best move in this case now isn't it. I guess your bosses got screwed alot because you don't ask questions and figure out other ways to get the job done legally.

Not asking WHY.....now that makes no sense.

You're confusing man.

 

[Fly91]

Might seem like a dumb question, but if we are talking about approach speeds it makes more sense that runway "Length" would be the controlling factor since it takes more energy to stop something moving faster than something slower. I wonder how the FAA came up with that one? Seems like length would have more weight in that restriction than width

I learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info

Not a dumb question at all, there's no such thing, which I'm laboring to get though to avbug.

I asked him that too when I spoke to them. He said you're either going into a strip because there's enough runway or you're simply not going in. But approach speeds and their limitations are set up so a plane can get stabilized and make the centerline without too much maneuvering close to the ground. Hence the wingspan limitation in the NOTAM too. Sounds logical to me.

 

[Fly91]

Nope, its a landing restriction. Nothing to do with an IFR approach in this case. If it did have something to do with and IFR approach a FDC NOTAM could be issued and increase minimums or restrict circling for Cat C or greater.

What I am seeking is facts not speculation on how to land a Cat C aircraft legally, like some have be doing Legally or possibly Illegally, at EGE while the NOTAM is in effect.

thanks.

Well, typical as it is, I have 4 voicemails into the FSDO with 4 different inspectors, waiting on a call back. I asked a DE friend of mine what he thinks. He 100% agrees with the tower supervisor I spoke with. Runway width and nothing else dictates approach CAT's.

Call that number I gave you, talk to him if you want to. He'll remember me from yesterday. I might call back to see if he can tell me which FSDO's issued those other Lears their letters, if I don't hear back by end of day tomorrow. It would be great to give my boss a letter of authorization, he'd love that.