Eagle or XJT?

[TNPILOT]

It's not that bad. You just have to do some work while you're down there. Apparently some people didn't get that memo. Fortunately they are starting to see the pass rates improve as of late.

 

[siucavflight]

I work at Eagle, and looked hard at expressjet. What it came down to was which one would get me a Chicao base, and it seemed like Eagle would do that. Do not pick a company based on upgrade time, what was two years today could be eight tomorrow, and what is eight years could be two, go to where you will be the happiest, if you are chasing around a quick upgrade you will be searching for a while. If you have any specific questions about Eagle let me know.

 

[Turbosnake03]

If Eagle has a base that you will be happy with, then i would go there. But as for the future. ExpressJet will have you in the left seat about 8 years before Eagle will. My old instructor is at Eagle in the Saab and he said he is looking at 7-8 years to upgrade in the Saab. and the jets are running about 2 years longer than that. ExpressJet is right at 2 years now and is projected to get close to 1.5

oh BTW the playmate thing is for real. I had lunch with her a couple of times at the training center. She is really nice, but trust me you wouldn't reconize her. She has changed alot.

 

[JudgeSmails218]

Both are strong companies in the industry, but ExJet has two major things going for it over Eagle: MUCH less time to upgrade and generally better morale. This is a critical year at Exjet and Eagle may be a bit more stable (if there is such a thing in this industry). Look at QOL issues as well such as bases. If you want to live in Chicago and not commute then its a no-brainer--Eagle. If you live in Houston, then Exjet's probably better. Alot of majors haven't hired in many years, so I would probably try to get the PIC jet/turbine ASAP as it is inevitable that they will start hiring in the next couple of years (even with the new age rule). Best of luck in your decision!

 

[siucavflight]

If Eagle has a base that you will be happy with, then i would go there. But as for the future. ExpressJet will have you in the left seat about 8 years before Eagle will. My old instructor is at Eagle in the Saab and he said he is looking at 7-8 years to upgrade in the Saab. and the jets are running about 2 years longer than that. ExpressJet is right at 2 years now and is projected to get close to 1.5

oh BTW the playmate thing is for real. I had lunch with her a couple of times at the training center. She is really nice, but trust me you wouldn't reconize her. She has changed alot.

See again someone who just does not understand upgrade times, yes Eagles is long, but let me try and make this plain english. The shortest CA on the EMB was put there at 8yrs and 9 months. he was hired in 98. Eagle did not hire anyone after 9-11 till midway through 04, that means when the last guy from the 01 hiring class upgrades, the upgrade time will drop 25 months over night. Now also look at AA recalling all of their flowback(flowbies) and we lose almost 400 CA's over the next 15 months(400 senior upgrades means about another 22 months worth of upgrades) So if we are not factoring attrition(which will be picking up due to the majors hiring)we are looking at a 4 year upgrade(still long, but that happens when you work for a good company). Sure I may be off a year in one direction or the other, but do the math, it adds up.

 

[Flyer1015]

siucavflight has it right, don't chase the upgrade time.

XJT is great, and may have 1.5-2 yr upgrades right now. But what happens if CAL decides to pull more 50 seat ERJs out from XJT (reduced capactiy), and instead opt for even more Q400s for Colgan?

I'm sure XJT has put the 69 ERJs to a good use and can continue to do very well, however, as far as stabilitly goes, I'd put my buck on Eagle.

Besides, if *ALL* you care about is *JUST* upgrade time, and you want the FASTEST upgrade to get your 1000 121 PIC turbine time, go to Mesa. Everyone will tell you that you will get treated like crap... most people get their quick upgrade, get PIC turbine time, and move on. If you can put up with Mesa's abuse, go for it.

 

[siucavflight]

Yeah at Mesa you can be CA on the 1900 after about 4 months.

 

[Turbosnake03]

Well i really don't need to do a bunch of math. It is pretty simple.

Eagle:
Most junior captain hired: Aug 1999(S340/DFW)

ExpressJet:
Most junior captain hired: Nov 2004 (EWR)


Yeah your right siucavflight. I guess im the one that dosen't understand upgrade times.

 

[Turbosnake03]

Yeah at Mesa you can be CA on the 1900 after about 4 months.

but why put up with the abuse, when you can go to a great company and get a quick upgrade?

 

[siucavflight]

Well i really don't need to do a bunch of math. It is pretty simple.

Eagle:
Most junior captain hired: Aug 1999(S340/DFW)

ExpressJet:
Most junior captain hired: Nov 2004 (EWR)


Yeah your right siucavflight. I guess im the one that dosen't understand upgrade times.

Do you think that it is going to stay that way? I am not trying to argue with you, no doubt you go to XJT and you will be CA before you are CA at AME, but there are a lot of other things to consider. And believe me the upgrade times will drop at eagle, a guy hired today at Eagle will make CA in 3-4 years.

 

[Flyer1015]

Well i really don't need to do a bunch of math. It is pretty simple.

Eagle:
Most junior captain hired: Aug 1999(S340/DFW)

ExpressJet:
Most junior captain hired: Nov 2004 (EWR)


Yeah your right siucavflight. I guess im the one that dosen't understand upgrade times.

I don't know about you, but this explanation was pretty crystal clear to me:

See again someone who just does not understand upgrade times, yes Eagles is long, but let me try and make this plain english. The shortest CA on the EMB was put there at 8yrs and 9 months. he was hired in 98. Eagle did not hire anyone after 9-11 till midway through 04, that means when the last guy from the 01 hiring class upgrades, the upgrade time will drop 25 months over night. Now also look at AA recalling all of their flowback(flowbies) and we lose almost 400 CA's over the next 15 months(400 senior upgrades means about another 22 months worth of upgrades) So if we are not factoring attrition(which will be picking up due to the majors hiring)we are looking at a 4 year upgrade(still long, but that happens when you work for a good company). Sure I may be off a year in one direction or the other, but do the math, it adds up.

 

[Starscream]

After 9/11, AE furloughed about 300 guys. That created a long hiring freeze. The 7+ yr upgrade is only an unfortunate reality for the current FO's who were hired before 9/11. The first newhire class after 9/11 was 1/19/2004.......a little over 2yrs. 4 months after 9/11. Subtract that from the current 7 1/2 year upgrade, and it's a little over 5 years to the left seat. That's not factoring in flowbacks/flowthrus leaving. Their departure will probably knock the upgrade time to 4-4.5 years. And that should be the time to the left seat for anyone hired after 9/11.

For those of you who aren't in the industry yet and are trying to decide where to go, it is IMPOSSIBLE to plan your future based on today's picture. It'd be like someone who has never follwed sports trying to decide which football team to root for based on who will win the most super bowls in the next 40 years.

If you go to XJT, and the branded flying doesn't work out, or if CAL ultimately shrinks the fleet, you're not going to upgrade in 2 years. It'll be more. What if CAL merges with someone and stops hiring (bringing XJT attrition to a grinding halt), then what? Same could be said for AE, this is very true. You just don't know. What if AMR decides to outsource our flying because we can't staff our airplanes? Our upgrade time will go to 10 years. What is if AMR gives preferential hiring to AE pilots (our longevity/labor costs are the highest in the industry we're constantly told) to AA when they start hiring again? Our upgrade time will be less than 4 years, maybe even less than 3. What if? What if? What if?? My point is there are so many factors in this game that are just too impossible to predict. Look at the overall picture, give some priority to location when choosing a regional (that's another thing, domiciles come and go), but just realize that if there is one thing that isn't guaranteed here, it's upgrade time. Amazing how fast that can change either way.

 

[Dharmesh1231]

heard eagle's hiring 700 pilots this year....are they going in for a major expansion or something

 

[Flyer1015]

heard eagle's hiring 700 pilots this year....are they going in for a major expansion or something

They want to hire 700. But they won't.

Latest (Feb 5th) class had, wait for it...





4 people in that class.


No expansion, no new jets. Attrition and flowbacks being recalled are the two biggies for needing more F/Os.

 

[siucavflight]

After 9/11, AE furloughed about 300 guys. That created a long hiring freeze. The 7+ yr upgrade is only an unfortunate reality for the current FO's who were hired before 9/11. The first newhire class after 9/11 was 1/19/2004.......a little over 2yrs. 4 months after 9/11. Subtract that from the current 7 1/2 year upgrade, and it's a little over 5 years to the left seat. That's not factoring in flowbacks/flowthrus leaving. Their departure will probably knock the upgrade time to 4-4.5 years. And that should be the time to the left seat for anyone hired after 9/11.

For those of you who aren't in the industry yet and are trying to decide where to go, it is IMPOSSIBLE to plan your future based on today's picture. It'd be like someone who has never follwed sports trying to decide which football team to root for based on who will win the most super bowls in the next 40 years.

If you go to XJT, and the branded flying doesn't work out, or if CAL ultimately shrinks the fleet, you're not going to upgrade in 2 years. It'll be more. What if CAL merges with someone and stops hiring (bringing XJT attrition to a grinding halt), then what? Same could be said for AE, this is very true. You just don't know. What if AMR decides to outsource our flying because we can't staff our airplanes? Our upgrade time will go to 10 years. What is if AMR gives preferential hiring to AE pilots (our longevity/labor costs are the highest in the industry we're constantly told) to AA when they start hiring again? Our upgrade time will be less than 4 years, maybe even less than 3. What if? What if? What if?? My point is there are so many factors in this game that are just too impossible to predict. Look at the overall picture, give some priority to location when choosing a regional (that's another thing, domiciles come and go), but just realize that if there is one thing that isn't guaranteed here, it's upgrade time. Amazing how fast that can change either way.

Yep, and 45 upgrades in this bid packet.

A VACANCY/DISPLACEMENT BID IS OPEN EFF <12 FEB 2007>:
*VACANCIES* *ENTER TRAINING NO LATER THAN*
<03 DFW-FO-CRJ <31 AUG 07
<04 ORD-FO-CRJ <31 AUG 07
<07 DFW-CA-EMJ <31 AUG 07
<05 DFW-FO-EMJ <31 AUG 07
<03 LAX-FO-EMJ <31 AUG 07
<23 ORD-CA EMJ <31 AUG 07
<12 ORD-FO-EMJ <31 AUG 07
<03 MIA-FO-ATR <31 AUG 07
<03 SJU-FO-ATR <31 AUG 07
<14 DFW-CA-SF3 <31 AUG 07
<06 DFW-FO-SF3 <31 AUG 07
<01 LAX-CA-SF3 <31 AUG 07
<02 LAX-FO-SF3 <31 AUG 07

 

[Jetlinkin]

did i read the title of this thread correctly?

 

[siucavflight]

did i read the title of this thread correctly?

I think that you get an award for post of the year. You sir get a cookie for your stupidity.

 

[FDAFCFI]

According to the website below your buddies are wrong.

http://www2.atpflightschool.com/AirlinePlacements/

She's the first one under November 2006

That is the the most disturbing site I have ever seen. Whose plane did you borrow to take those pics? I worked with a guy from ATP and he was the biggest braggart, no knowledge flight instructor I have ever met. Cocky cocky cocky to the greatest fault. I know they're not all like that but that really wasn't impressive.

 

[Swaayze]

I think that you get an award for post of the year. You sir get a cookie for your stupidity.

What's so stupid about it? Unless you want to live in an Eagle base why would you hesitate to choose XJT? I think he was implying that this dilemma is really a no-brainer and nobody should have to ask. Trite? Sure, but valid IMO.

 

[Goose Egg]

So, I'm pretty sure that I already know the answer to this question, but I'm just double checking. So say I've been flying along happily at my Boston (or EWR) base for a few years, and then decide that I wanted LAX (or ONT). Could I change? How would that work? It's probably an offensively easy question, but as a 1000 hour idiot CFI, I'm only somewhat familiar with how this whole bidding system works. Someone help me out here.

-Goose