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Eagle Flight 3008

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xjcaptain

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Posts
320
Anybody hear anything wlse about this incident? Sounds like they got just a BIT too slow? Possibly climbing in VS in icing?


NTSB Identification: LAX06IA076
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of American Eagle Airlines, Inc.
Incident occurred Monday, January 02, 2006 in Santa Maria, CA
Aircraft: Saab-Scania AB (Saab) SF340B+, registration: N390AE
Injuries: 28 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On January 2, 2006, at 1439 Pacific standard time, a Saab-Scania AB (SAAB) SF340B+, N390AE, operated by American Eagle Airlines, Inc., as flight 3008, encountered icing conditions during the en route climb, about 11,500 feet mean sea level (msl), and departed controlled flight, descending to an altitude of about 6,500 feet msl. The pilots recovered control of the airplane and continued to their scheduled destination of Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), Los Angeles California, where they landed at 1540 without further incident. The 2 flight crewmembers, 1 flight attendant, and 25 passengers were not injured. While there does not appear to be any damage at this writing, an assessment of the structure is on-going. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed for the 14 CFR Part 121 scheduled domestic passenger flight that was operating on an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan. The flight originated from San Luis County Regional Airport (SBP), San Luis Obispo, California, at 1414.

A review of the American Eagle Airlines, Inc., aircraft flight log disclosed that the accident flight was scheduled to be the flight crew's fifth trip of the day, and their second trip in the accident airplane. The 1 hour 26 minute accident flight was scheduled to depart from SBP at 1408, and terminate in LAX at 1513.

Prior to departure, the flight crew reviewed the dispatch information during the approximate 20-minute duration that the airplane was at the gate. The wind conditions at SBP were reported to be gusting to 27 knots. The captain opted to fly the initial departure, with the intention of transferring flight control authority to the first officer at the airplane's acceleration altitude. After a normal liftoff and initial climb, the first officer took the controls about 2,500 feet msl with the airplane's autopilot engaged. As the airplane climbed through 11,000 feet msl the captain noted light rime ice accumulating on the windshield wiper blades and about 1/2-inch-wide area of ice on the left wing.

The captain began to reach up to activate the manual deice boot system and the airplane vibrated. The airplane encountered ice and the windscreen immediately turned white. The clacker and stick-shaker activated and the captained took control of the airplane. The autopilot disengaged and the airplane began to bank to the left in a nose low attitude. The airplane began a rapid decent and the captain recovered at an altitude of about 6,500 feet msl.

National Transportation Safety Board investigators reviewed the airplane's maintenance records and logbooks. The day prior to incident a flight crew reported that during an en route deice boot check, the timer light illuminated. The deicer timer failure light was later deferred in accordance with the operator's minimum equipment list (MEL). The deferral procedures required a placard to be placed adjacent to the deicer timer switch and the auto cycling switch to remain in the "off" position. An MEL placard (sticker) was next to the deice system controls in the cockpit.

Initial examinations revealed the airplane's deice systems were operational; however, the deicer timer failure light illuminated. The investigation is ongoing.
 
So, does the MEL for that item say to not operate the aircraft in known icing conditions, dude?
 
No actually there are no restrictions other than the need to use the manual system rather than the continuous or one cycle positions run by the defered de-ice timer.
 
xjcaptain said:
No actually there are no restrictions other than the need to use the manual system rather than the continuous or one cycle positions run by the defered de-ice timer.
Really? I wonder what happened?
 
FN FAL said:
Really? I wonder what happened?

It sounds like they failed to activate the system at all... I'm not familiar with the airplane so I don't know if it has an "AUTO" position or not. Also there is no information there regarding the ice detectors. What happened with them?
 
ERJFO said:
It sounds like they failed to activate the system at all... I'm not familiar with the airplane so I don't know if it has an "AUTO" position or not. Also there is no information there regarding the ice detectors. What happened with them?

The "auto" is called continuous on the SF340. When selected to cont. it cycles the boots every 3 minutes (24 sec inflate/deflate cycle, and 2:36 dwell). As far as ice detectors, I'm not sure if eagle has them or not, but as far as I know very few SF340's are equipped with them. I'ts very easy to identify ice on the Saab, lots of visual que's. None of XJ's saabs have ever had them installed. Over the years we've have approx 80 different AC.
 
xjcaptain said:
The "auto" is called continuous on the SF340. When selected to cont. it cycles the boots every 3 minutes (24 sec inflate/deflate cycle, and 2:36 dwell). As far as ice detectors, I'm not sure if eagle has them or not, but as far as I know very few SF340's are equipped with them. I'ts very easy to identify ice on the Saab, lots of visual que's. None of XJ's saabs have ever had them installed. Over the years we've have approx 80 different AC.

Okay, My previous idea was that they the AC had an "auto" system that activated when the ice detectors detected ice. My current aircraft has this and I could see the this situation occuring if the ice detectors were MEL'ed and the crew was complacent about an auto system like I described not being operable... It's still quite possible that they never turned the boots on at all.
 
The boots may have been turned on however the SAAB'S have little issue's with the boot/ de-ice system. testing on the ground the other day the timer light came on increased torque both HP's on still timer light illuminated, manually inboard and outboard worked ok but the stab light on control was not illuminating, BUT the boot's were inflating. Turn that senario around light does show section working but boots not inflating. System may have been working ok as far as the flight crew was aware but the boots on 1 section may not have inflated.
 
Kingzrt said:
The boots may have been turned on however the SAAB'S have little issue's with the boot/ de-ice system. testing on the ground the other day the timer light came on increased torque both HP's on still timer light illuminated, manually inboard and outboard worked ok but the stab light on control was not illuminating, BUT the boot's were inflating. Turn that senario around light does show section working but boots not inflating. System may have been working ok as far as the flight crew was aware but the boots on 1 section may not have inflated.

It is possible,....but the timer was defered. So manual was the only available option. Your situation might be explained if we knew how long you had been running for when you performed the test. If the AC gens had been on line for less than approx 5 minutes, the heat blankets in the distribution valves in the tail may not have had sufficient time to heat. This is a common problem on a cold soaked aircraft and the solution is simple....wait a few minutes and try it again. Also the timer light may have come on for improper inflate/deflate times, loss of power and a whole host of other reasons. If the green light comes on in manual, then you know that you at least have pressure downstream of the pressure sensor, so unless the lines after of the pressure switch are frozen due to faulty ejectors, the boots inflate. The report does say that the captain was "reaching" for the manual inflate at the time of loss of control, so it sounds like they were in icing and had not activated the boots at all. Still sounds like the airspeed was allowed to decay to a dangerous level regardless of the conditions.\

Just curious about your scenario, you said the light was not coming on for the stab, but the boots were inflating. Did you have somebody outside confirm this? Just curious because you can't see the stab from the cockpit. Also, if you had a ramper confirm it, they probably wouldn't identify a problem with the vertical stab, or possibly a blown boot on the opposite side of the aircraft. Especially if the boot is blown out on the upper surface. It's possible to get a partial inflation in this scenario that would prevent the cockpit light from illuminating due to low pressure, but the boot still appearing to inflate (partially) to the untrained eye.
 
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