E-190s at Airtran?

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

You sounded like you might have a legitimate opinion on the state of our affairs (I don't agree with it, but it's your right) until I read this. You have absolutely no clue how the RLA and negotiations work. You will not see anything after their initial proposal until the whole deal is TA'd. The most either side is allowed to say is very general opinion but certainly no details. Based on our initial proposal and the company's initial proposal, I can only ascertain that the raises may not cover cost of living since the ammendable date, let alone be any raise on top of that, whether that be hourly or total compensation. Based on all the public info available, the NPA's opinion of this is good enough for me until I see the complete TA and have a chance to make a choice for myself.

I actually do understand how it works. But another poster here called the offer "disgraceful". My point was how does he or she know that? NPA was disappointed, so it probably was not a good offer. But to sit and call it "disgraceful" when having no idea of the details is a stretch. Maybe it is, my point was, we don't really know that.

I agree, let's wait until we can see a TA before casting judgement.

 

[newnan]

You will not see anything after their initial proposal until the whole deal is TA'd

You conveniently left that sentance out

 

[newnan]

I actually do understand how it works. But another poster here called the offer "disgraceful". My point was how does he or she know that? NPA was disappointed, so it probably was not a good offer. But to sit and call it "disgraceful" when having no idea of the details is a stretch. Maybe it is, my point was, we don't really know that.

I agree, let's wait until we can see a TA before casting judgement.

Maybe we're getting somewhere, you started out not trusting the NPA and now maybe agreeing that since they said the offer was disappointing that it probably was.

As an aside, does anyone think we'll get more than 60% to even vote on the TA when it comes due to the apathy here?

 

[FIREMAN]

You will not see anything after their initial proposal until the whole deal is TA'd

You conveniently left that sentance out

You are right I read right over that,sorry.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Maybe we're getting somewhere, you started out not trusting the NPA and now maybe agreeing that since they said the offer was disappointing that it probably was.

As an aside, does anyone think we'll get more than 60% to even vote on the TA when it comes due to the apathy here?

Certainly will be interesting to see how many vote. Although, according to Ty, we don't need a vote, just a polling sample should do. I hope it's more than 60%. I know that I will vote.

Yes, i agree that the offer probably was disappointing to the NPA. Maybe to me too, maybe not. I can not fairly make that determination. The word is too relative. I don't hate the NPA as you might think, I just think it's important to point out the deficiencies of the NPA, as well as provide an opposing view to the chest thumpers. If the chest thumpers aren't tempered by reason, or even negativity, things will raqpidly spiral out of control.

 

[Nindiri]

I wonder if management, behind it's closed doors, talks about the need to be reasonable and offer pilots a fair contract.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I wonder if management, behind it's closed doors, talks about the need to be reasonable and offer pilots a fair contract.

I'll bet they do. But fair is relative. Fair means two different things I'm sure.

 

[j41driver]

LFFS,
A Union works much like the U.S. House and Senate, you put the Officers in with your vote and they do what they feel is right. They dont always make the right choice be it NPA or ALPA

There are a lot of MEC's within ALPA that use membership ratification on all potential side letters/agreements that have a material affect on the pilot group. Much better way to go than what we have in the NPA.

 

[j41driver]

No, they do not, and they can't. We have 1400+ pilots. It's simple, just like we voted for union officers. Each pilot logs on, votes simply "yes or no", and then the union releases the results of the referendum as to whether or not to support it. Done. EVERY PILOT needs the opportunity to voice on this issue. We are small enough that on an issue like this, it is simple to have a true vote.

Amen brother!

 

[j41driver]

Looks like someone failed statistics.

I was polled and I voted against it. Most pilots here disagree with me. I can accept that. The polling was done correctly and is a fair representation of the collective will of the pilot group.

Does CNN and USAToday poll every American when they report Bush's approval ratings?

Hell, if it's so perfect then why not use the Wilson Center for ratifying the new contract. I mean, it would be way too hard to ask all 1400 pilots.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Hell, if it's so perfect then why not use the Wilson Center for ratifying the new contract. I mean, it would be way too hard to ask all 1400 pilots.

Thank you, Ty Webb should be happy with that too.

 

[Benhuntn]

I was at Hooters and I heard it was 2 for one for but I am not sure if it was E-190's or not.

 

[FlyAirtran]

Im with you FlyFastLiveSlow. All very well said. You make very good points. I definitely want some improvements to the contract but I dont want to put my company out of business just because some CA has a $3800 interest only mortgage (yes actual story) and is on his cell phone in the cockpit arguing with his wife because she needs new tires on their minivan but he cant afford to .... but hey his house is on the water, right?? Then begins to say to you that he doesnt make enough money. wtf?!!? Im makin $56 an hour and you cant make it happen?!!! We all need to make more money at Airtran, no doubt about it!! But this sounds like poor financial planning. How much more do you guys want? What is fair? Im really interested in your answer. Fedex Pay, UPS? Southwest? When we make as much as those guys do per quarter, then I will want a bigger piece of the pie. Right now I want a raise and better work rules and I dont want to put my company out of business or piss off any passengers. Age 60??? wtF??? nobody asked me! Had they, I would have said no.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Im sorry but I have not talk with any CA that has a problem with there rates. Its the FO rates that they have problem with, which are way behind. Im sure there are the CA that are starving with his 5 wifes , but that is a very small minority.
I love are the flying we do, but if the rates dont come up the flood gates will open and staffing will be come a major issue. A lot of FO are on the fence.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Im with you FlyFastLiveSlow. All very well said. You make very good points. I definitely want some improvements to the contract but I dont want to put my company out of business just because some CA has a $3800 interest only mortgage (yes actual story) and is on his cell phone in the cockpit arguing with his wife because she needs new tires on their minivan but he cant afford to .... but hey his house is on the water, right?? Then begins to say to you that he doesnt make enough money. wtf?!!? Im makin $56 an hour and you cant make it happen?!!! We all need to make more money at Airtran, no doubt about it!! But this sounds like poor financial planning. How much more do you guys want? What is fair? Im really interested in your answer. Fedex Pay, UPS? Southwest? When we make as much as those guys do per quarter, then I will want a bigger piece of the pie. Right now I want a raise and better work rules and I dont want to put my company out of business or piss off any passengers. Age 60??? wtF??? nobody asked me! Had they, I would have said no.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Thanks for the support my friend.