E-190s at Airtran?

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Looks like someone failed statistics.

I was polled and I voted against it. Most pilots here disagree with me. I can accept that. The polling was done correctly and is a fair representation of the collective will of the pilot group.

Does CNN and USAToday poll every American when they report Bush's approval ratings?

No, they do not, and they can't. We have 1400+ pilots. It's simple, just like we voted for union officers. Each pilot logs on, votes simply "yes or no", and then the union releases the results of the referendum as to whether or not to support it. Done. EVERY PILOT needs the opportunity to voice on this issue. We are small enough that on an issue like this, it is simple to have a true vote.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

People like you (LiveFast) make me embarrassed to wear my uniform. Your gripes with the union only show your ignorance. Why meet in HPN you ask? FYI, the mediator sets the locations. If you "don't trust these people as far as I can throw them" you obviously don't know them very well. I'm not going to waste my time responding point by point to all the inaccuracies you brought up, the company propaganda machine has already brainwashed you.

Lear, the last session was "highly disappointing" because of the companys compensation proposal. From what we were told, certain aspects of scheduling were TA'd based on assumptions regarding how compensation was to be handled (rigs, min day, etc). Alan said it was the most disappointing session this year.

It's time to turn up the heat out there on line. Fly Safe!!

I know some of them quite well actually. And if you are embarrased to wear the uniform because I think independently, maybe you should take a look in the mirror. SH PROVED during the last negotiation that he could not be trusted, yet here he is again.

Good luck with "turning up the heat". Individual "job actions" are useless. They waste money and piss off passengers. It's people like you that make ME embarrased to wear the uniform.

 

[-9Capt]

Kolski? Is that you?

SH PROVED during the last negotiation that he could not be trusted, yet here he is again..

That is a direct quote from an email sent by Steve Kolski to Alan Philpot last year.

You've been brainwashed bro.

 

[cl65capt]

CASM neutral should equal effort neutral. Too bad more people dont see it that way.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Kolski? Is that you?




That is a direct quote from an email sent by Steve Kolski to Alan Philpot last year.

You've been brainwashed bro.

Whatever.

 

[FLB717]

LFFS,
A Union works much like the U.S. House and Senate, you put the Officers in with your vote and they do what they feel is right. They dont always make the right choice be it NPA or ALAP etc, but if you want something different that leaves you two choices. 1 YOU run for office, or 2 YOU lead a recall effort. I know niether will happen because it would require an effort that many just would rather not do. I respect you voice because you do speek up, but I disagree with your points of view. But hey it is a free country, our Troops die every day to provide us that.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

LFFS,
A Union works much like the U.S. House and Senate, you put the Officers in with your vote and they do what they feel is right. They dont always make the right choice be it NPA or ALAP etc, but if you want something different that leaves you two choices. 1 YOU run for office, or 2 YOU lead a recall effort. I know niether will happen because it would require an effort that many just would rather not do. I respect you voice because you do speek up, but I disagree with your points of view. But hey it is a free country, our Troops die every day to provide us that.

Agreed. I have tried many times to get involved. I think my single biggest complaint is the hypocrisy of asking for volunteers, and promising good communications, and then never responding to anything, ever. Emails, calls, no one ever answers the phone, etc. We probably agree on much more than you think. I'm guessing that our REAL disagreement is regarding how things are handled.

 

[FLB717]

I guess so. Take care fly safe and wear your Pin. :beer:

 

[-9Capt]

Agreed. I have tried many times to get involved. I think my single biggest complaint is the hypocrisy of asking for volunteers, and promising good communications, and then never responding to anything, ever. Emails, calls, no one ever answers the phone, etc. We probably agree on much more than you think. I'm guessing that our REAL disagreement is regarding how things are handled.

You have ample opportunities to ask questions and volunteer your services. I did it.

Have you gone to any of the Picadilly meetings? How about taken part in any of the monthly conference calls?

Don't tell me you've been working during every meeting/call. It might take a little effort on your part, but I guess it's easier to come here to bitch and moan.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

You have ample opportunities to ask questions and volunteer your services. I did it.

Have you gone to any of the Picadilly meetings? How about taken part in any of the monthly conference calls?

Don't tell me you've been working during every meeting/call. It might take a little effort on your part, but I guess it's easier to come here to bitch and moan.

Let me ask you a question. If you wanted to GIVE me $20, how long would you chase after me until you said "screw this, he obviously doesn't want it"? Or if you go on a date and the girl never gets back to you, she's not interested right? So you stop pursuing. Same thing, don't return my emails or calls, you aren't interested. Get it now?

 

[Clyde Frog]

Same thing, don't return my emails or calls, you aren't interested. Get it now?

Maybe your union isn't interested because they see you as the company sympathizer you are.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Maybe your union isn't interested because they see you as the company sympathizer you are.

Maybe this was long before I felt the way I do. Ever think of that? And I am not a company sympathizer, just a realist.

 

[jhill]

<<<SWA? Totally different company, and I don't think it will be too much longer until that party starts to end.>>>

Are you talking about our anual Chili Cookoff? A bunch of us are upset about that but we'll come up with something. When we come to Atlanta next year we are going to have a lot of parties at Stone Mountain and Kennesaw National Park. We get really involved in the communities we serve.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Maybe this was long before I felt the way I do. .

Then I guess -9 was right, you were brainwashed.

Glad I don't work there, with unity like this, management has the upper hand. Good luck guys, you'll need it.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Then I guess -9 was right, you were brainwashed.

Glad I don't work there, with unity like this, management has the upper hand. Good luck guys, you'll need it.

No, I call it like I see it, not brainwashing. Maybe there is not good unity for a reason. You need good leadership to create it.

 

[Clyde Frog]

You need good leadership to create it.

Common sense helps also.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Common sense helps also.

You further make my point. So if you don't work here, how can you have an opinion?

 

[Ty Webb]

FFLS-

The management of this airline have offered you a disgraceful contract, one that isn't fit to wipe your shoes on, yet you blame your union, who are fighting on your behalf against EAL management tactics . . . . sounds to me like you have been listening to too many scabs, because that is the same type of crap I used to hear from them. The difference is that I saw through it.

Guys like you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.


.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

FFLS-

The management of this airline have offered you a disgraceful contract, one that isn't fit to wipe your shoes on, yet you blame your union, who are fighting on your behalf against EAL management tactics . . . . sounds to me like you have been listening to too many scabs, because that is the same type of crap I used to hear from them. The difference is that I saw through it.

Guys like you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.


.

Is it disgraceful? We don't even know what they offered this last time. It's like the Bush administration. "Just trust us". But you need no details. Convince me why I should trust them on that.

I blame my union for certain tactics they have used, not necessarily for what they are trying to accomplish. NPA stooped to Kolski's level early on in this process. That was a HUGE disappointment. I was extraordinarily hopeful about the new group. I just wish the high road were taken.

I'm actually quite pro-union in general (something that baffles me considering the majority political orientation among pilots, but that is another discussion altogether) ....so convince me, sway me in the direction of standing behind them 100%. I'm open....I'm waiting for a convincing argument. Sell me.

 

[-9Capt]

Is it disgraceful? We don't even know what they offered this last time. It's like the Bush administration. "Just trust us". But you need no details. Convince me why I should trust them on that. .

Every time you open your mouth you show your ignorance. The complete company proposal has been available on the NPA website SINCE OCTOBER 2005!!
You probably don't even have a password, I suppose that's the unions fault also.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Every time you open your mouth you show your ignorance. The complete company proposal has been available on the NPA website SINCE OCTOBER 2005!!
You probably don't even have a password, I suppose that's the unions fault also.

I'm refering to the compensation proposal from a few days ago. I'm SURE it is not the same as the Oct. 2005 offer. So who is showing their ignorance? YOU!

Good job of changing my perception with that post.

 

[Lake Alice]

Good luck to y'all. Guys like that are like a fungus. They are hard to get rid off and serve no purpose. Rest assured we all have them and in the end you just work around them. A rational person can see many sides of an argument, a company lackey sees only one.

 

[-9Capt]

I blame my union for certain tactics they have used, not necessarily for what they are trying to accomplish. NPA stooped to Kolski's level early on in this process. That was a HUGE disappointment. I was extraordinarily hopeful about the new group. I just wish the high road were taken..

You want to talk tactics, OK.

Steve Kolski threatened bodily harm against our prior negotiating chairman, a long time friend of mine and a man of high moral character. Steve also made anti-Semitic remarks directed at Seth Rosen, our outside legal counsel. Management frequently made ultimatums regarding terms they themselves offered and agreed to (remove the negotiating chairman or we rescind all prior offers, remember that one?). And lets not forget the time they gave themselves record bonuses while we gave concessions.

I think we have been taking the high road considering the way they've been behaving.

Why should you stand behind them 100%? Because not doing so is siding with management, hurts our solidarity and ultimately leads to a fractured pilot group who ends up working for $hit wages and work rules.

 

[-9Capt]

I'm refering to the compensation proposal from a few days ago. .

If that's what you ment to say, try saying it. I can't read you mind.

They polled us repeatedly, they know what we expect and what we consider unacceptable. The NPA has been very forth coming with information.

Scheduling was TA'd with certain expectations for compensation. Those expectations were not met, how much more information do you need?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

You want to talk tactics, OK.

Steve Kolski threatened bodily harm against our prior negotiating chairman, a long time friend of mine and a man of high moral character. Steve also made anti-Semitic remarks directed at Seth Rosen, our outside legal counsel. Management frequently made ultimatums regarding terms they themselves offered and agreed to (remove the negotiating chairman or we rescind all prior offers, remember that one?). And lets not forget the time they gave themselves record bonuses while we gave concessions.

I think we have been taking the high road considering the way they've been behaving.

Why should you stand behind them 100%? Because not doing so is siding with management, hurts our solidarity and ultimately leads to a fractured pilot group who ends up working for $hit wages and work rules.

All of that is wrong that Kolski did. The threat to remove the Chair was wrong too, although I was not a big fan of some of his behavior and tactics (I do not know him personally, and I have no judgement on him as a person, before you start). Kolski does not belong at the table. But, NPA saying Leonard is basically Lorenzo in the press was equally as bad. I think BOTH sides have taken some pretty childish stances during this process.

Debate is a good thing. Or is dissent Un-American? Maybe someone will see something that another didn't. Something better. I'm all ears here.

I can't stand behind something 100% when I don't support 100% of what they are standing for, can I? Would you?

We don't currently have $hit wages or ******************** work rules. They could be better, sure, but they could also be a lot worse.

Perhaps my problem is hearing so many CA's that buried themselves in debt and now think they should make $250 an hour to bail themselves out. Maybe I've been tainted by them?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If that's what you ment to say, try saying it. I can't read you mind.

Scheduling was TA'd with certain expectations for compensation. Those expectations were not met, how much more information do you need?

Because the term "disappointing" is an extremely relative term. Does that mean the company offered $100/hr top pay and they were upset, or does it mean the company offered $300/hr and they were upset? Beats me.

 

[-9Capt]

All of that is wrong that Kolski did. The threat to remove the Chair was wrong too, although I was not a big fan of some of his behavior and tactics (I do not know him personally, and I have no judgement on him as a person, before you start). Kolski does not belong at the table.

I have delt with Klaus/Kolski numerous times. I've seen Kolski erupt throw a v-file full of blank paper across the room during an arbitration (it was a prop). You can't imaging the mentality and tactics they use unless you've experienced it yourself. The current NPA administration is doing a hell of a job considering the circumstances they are up against and lack of support they are receiving from the line.

 

[-9Capt]

Because the term "disappointing" is an extremely relative term. Does that mean the company offered $100/hr top pay and they were upset, or does it mean the company offered $300/hr and they were upset? Beats me.

***CAUTION ASSUMPTIONS ARE ABOUT TO BE MADE***

It probably had little to do with an hourly figure and more to do with rigs/guarantees. For instance, lets assume the NPA agreed to give up the 12hr duty day with the implied understanding of increasing the minimum daily guarantee or increasing the duty rig when they talk compensation. The company, now having a completed scheduling section, wants to keep compensation "CASM neutral" and will not agree to any increases. That's what I ASSUME is going on.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I have delt with Klaus/Kolski numerous times. I've seen Kolski erupt throw a v-file full of blank paper across the room during an arbitration (it was a prop). You can't imaging the mentality and tactics they use unless you've experienced it yourself. The current NPA administration is doing a hell of a job considering the circumstances they are up against and lack of support they are receiving from the line.

The biggest problem with lack of support is the lack of communications. And I don't mean mass emails and the like. I mean the lack of personally returning calls and emails. It gives the members the impression that no gives a crap to take the time to answer them. I've heard the complaint a million times.

SAP II is another issue. They NPA chose to take the automation away and NO ONE I have talked to wanted them to do that. Me included. Again, age 60, you said a representative poll was taken, yet of the last 40 people I have talked to ALL except one are opposed to it. How many were polled? 50? 100? 500? Who knows? Who does it truly represent? I can tell you that it has a lot of people angry.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

***CAUTION ASSUMPTIONS ARE ABOUT TO BE MADE***

It probably had little to do with an hourly figure and more to do with rigs/guarantees. For instance, lets assume the NPA agreed to give up the 12hr duty day with the implied understanding of increasing the minimum daily guarantee or increasing the duty rig when they talk compensation. The company, now having a completed scheduling section, wants to keep compensation "CASM neutral" and will not agree to any increases. That's what I ASSUME is going on.

And if that is true, then it SHOULD be rejected. I hate making assumptions though. I prefer to react on facts.