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Duane Worth Cashes in on B6

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Midnight Mike said:
That is not for Duane to say as Jetblue is a Non-ALPA carrier, Duane is not the official or unoffical spokesman for Jetblue, unless the Jetblue pilots want him to be.

The Jetblue crew did their job & did it well, that's it, Duane is simply riding the coat-tails of Jetblue....

In the press release he could have simply said said "Good job", & left it at that... Anything more than that & he is grandstanding......

Oh yeah, maybe next time in the press release you can make mention of Jetblue & include the link to the Jetblue website, since, Duane does care about Jetblue, hmmmm???!?

If DW can use the jB event to enforce the piloting profession, why is that bad? Grandstanding for who? The 100,000 Air Line Pilots in this country? I see that as a good thing...

In addition, just like you and I, DW can say what he likes. If he has an opportunity to address the Agenda of ALPA....wouldn't that be his job?
 
Great question Conman, and a very fair one at that. I had a check for 10 grand put in my 401 for profit sharing, and I made 8 and some change on an employee stock purchase sell out. As well, if you figure in some vacation pay, paid time off pay, and some 100 hour pay credit months youll get the figure you came up with. Please understand I'm not bragging. I'm just defending the frequent bashing we B6 guys take, and trying to educate those that are willing to understand our pay/benefits package really isnt that bad.
 
Duane made references to the race to the bottom and lack of experienced pilots flying. Well if he really wants to do something, he could start a campaign to inform passengers that when they get on some flights the pilots don't always work for the company that is painted on the aircraft, and may have very different experience levels then they assumed.
 
Chronic Jetlag said:
If if was up to me we would all the skygods and make $300K/year and have 21 days off per month. Too bad for all of us we live in a free market economy and we don't get paid what we're worth, but rather what the free market will bear and only if you have the ability to negotiate it. It's impossible to quantify what an airline pilot is worth. Is a ball player worth $3 million per year...it's what the market will bear. Blaming the industry and your own plight on your fellow pilots is the easiest thing to do but wrong.

The airline landscape is changing before our eyes. Pricing power once on the side of the airlines have shifted to the consumer after the advent of the internet. The shift towards efficiency in the market place is a natural progression for any business; and airlines are no exception while rising oil prices have only accelerated that evolution. We all know the complexity of the old pricing structure: over charge your best, repeat last minute customer where they are in the minority in numbers but provide the majority of your profit. It's taken almost 30 years since deregulation for this business model to fail. The majority of your profit better come from the majority of your customers.

Most JB guys Do know better and DO know what it was like to make the real $$ with the old legacy carriers. If you were making $200K plus in the old days, it's not because you were worth that much; it's what the market will bear at that time and only because your union got you that pay. Don't confuse or validate your self worth with your pay. JB only has 80 planes. Do you really believe if JB wasn't around the industry wouldn't be where it's at today? To insinuate we don't know what a good contract is or what good pay is is really just an ignorant statement... and to mock those w/o a college degree is beneath you!

If you are unable or unwilling to work under the present condition or pay and choose a different profession then that's a personal choice. You really need to wake up and smell the coffee. Pilots didn't "Erode" the profession.

If If? Sounds like high school english to me Cuz? Market will bear? If guys were not willing to fly an airbus for 120k a year we would not be in the predicament we are in. Why do you guys not have the ability to negotiate? I know the answer to that already. Just curious if you have figured it out yet. Believe me Cuz, I have smelled the coffee and no longer want to work in a field where high school graduates earn the same as college and post graduate folks. A college degree is supposed to be worth something but, I guess not in the piloting profession. Enjoy your job. By the way, you have no clue what a good contract is. Do you even have a contract?
 
800, your post is not even worthy of a response. You obviously dont know enough about the situation to even debate it. We dont have a contract, we dont pay for our planes, we clean the planes, dump the lavs, and load the bags, and we are only paying 25 cents a gallon for gas, and we fly 320's for 120 a year and only get five days off a month. You hit the nail on the head.
 
CUZ said:
800, your post is not even worthy of a response. You obviously dont know enough about the situation to even debate it. We dont have a contract, we dont pay for our planes, we clean the planes, dump the lavs, and load the bags, and we are only paying 25 cents a gallon for gas, and we fly 320's for 120 a year and only get five days off a month. You hit the nail on the head.

Actually Cuz, you seem clueless. Is 4th year captain pay at Jetblow not $118hr?(4th yr. based on your previous post) Absolutely pathetic! Do you have a contract? Other than the 5 year agreement signed with the company I mean. Did I say anything about you cleaning airplanes? Dumping the lavs? 25 cents per gallon? You seem awfully defensive. I suppose I would as well if I was whoring myself out to the lowest bidder. Enjoy it bro. I know you will, because your expectations are much lower than those of us who busted our asses to earn a degree as well as our flight training. Again, you are as much the enemy as management, probably worse!
 
How do you think I got here 800? I've got the degree, two actually. I instructed, flew freight, flew the commuters, flew corporate, flew the majors, flew corporate again, now the majors again. I've busted my backside to get where I'm at. No china was laid in front of my face my friend. I'm merely stating that I'm happy with my current situation considering what most of my pilot brothers are going through right now. I'm sure the folks at USAir, and DAL, and United, and others dont want to hear me complaining about pay and benefits. Have you ever considered the fact that a large chunk of our pilot force is furloughed from the other carriers that you speak so highly of? Whats funny is that most of the furloughed guys that are on our property are tickled with their current situation and are true professionals in every aspect of the term. Are you so no naive to think that a small 80 airplane carrier has caused the entire industry to crumble? If you are truly leaving the industry and moving on to (What you deserve), then get with it. Take your degree and HA!!!. No one made you any promises of fortune and riches when you signed on the line, and no one is going to do it in the future.
 
reality check

800Dog said:
If If? Sounds like high school english to me Cuz? Market will bear? If guys were not willing to fly an airbus for 120k a year we would not be in the predicament we are in. Why do you guys not have the ability to negotiate? I know the answer to that already. Just curious if you have figured it out yet. Believe me Cuz, I have smelled the coffee and no longer want to work in a field where high school graduates earn the same as college and post graduate folks. A college degree is supposed to be worth something but, I guess not in the piloting profession. Enjoy your job. By the way, you have no clue what a good contract is. Do you even have a contract?

Mr. 800Dog:
Once again you are personally attacking your fellow pilots. I admit I'm not the best typist in the world and made a few typos. If this is all you're bringing to the table then you should re-arm yourself with facts rather than personal insults. A sound argument carries weight and merit, a personal insult only exposes your ignorance & hubris. You made it quite obvious that flying an A320 for $120K/year is beneath you and you feel insulted and acrimonious that other pilots are whoring themselves and eroding the profession by flying for less. Ask yourself what your education, flying skills, airmanship is really worth to corporate America if you couldn't fly? How marketable are your skills to corporate America? A college degree no longer guarantees or even assures a good, high paying career. A medical doctor comes out of med school eye balls deep in student loans. Has to work 24 hours straight during their residency...and have you really checked lately what new doctors are really making? Why don't you read last month's article in the Economist magazine about a surgeon's compensation. Personally I feel the airline pilot profession is the most professional, the most noble profession on earth; higher than doctors and lawyers. It brings out the best and...unfortunately the worst in people. In times of peril it tests your strength & character. I have personally seen the best and the worst in pilots; we are our own worst enemy. Pilots eats their youngs.

Do yourself a favor and do a little self inventory and be honest with yourself. I don't like it either but the harsh reality is this: Airline pilots possess a skill that's very much like a trade; we practice our trade and our employers compensate us with $$$. All of us are expendable, no different from one another. We all dream for the "good old days", the days of Pan Am, Eastern, TWA. But those days are long gone and as much as I hate to admit it I must roll with the punches and change with the times. Right now I still feel being an airline pilot is worth it. The day that I feel it's not worth it I'll pack it up and go sell real estate or be a greeter at Wal Mart but I promise you won't find me on this form blaming my fellow pilots for my woes with disparaging remarks!!!
 
bluejuice787 said:
Bill Gates does not have a college degree.

And you're not Bill Gates.

This is like people who don't wear seatbelts because they know someone who was thrown from a crash and would have been killed if they had been wearing the belt. A statistical anomaly.

Don't let one datapoint skew your view of what can make you successful in this world. Does a college degree automatically make you smart? No. Does it make you a smarter person than you were without it. Yes.

Do you need a college degree to be as rich as Bill Gates? Not if you're Bill Gates.
If you're making tons of dollars and don't have a degree...don't waste your time getting one. But Bill Gates not having one is not an excuse to put in the effort to improve your position in life.
 
800dog what's with your hang up over those with a college degree? You sound like one of those lifelong nerds who made fun of the dumb jocks when you were younger. The great thing about this profession is the cross section of fine folks we work with. Some better educated than others. I judge a fellow pilot by his professionalism, not how he looks on paper. I have flown with the intellectual types (who are not shy in letting you know how brilliant they are) who can't even land on the centerline or worse yet can't even fly pitch and power. I have also flown with the types that you loathe who have common sense and an inate ability to fly the hell out of an airplane. These qualities along with good situational awareness are what make a good pilot. Come down off your high horse man. I hate to sound cocky because I know that one day the guy facing the pay cut and the lifestyle change could be me, and I truly feel for those in that position right now. That being said if you think that 140k a yr plus 10.5 B fund contribution and 16-17 days off a month with 3 weeks vacation is that bad then please stay the hell away from AirTran cause I sure don't want to fly with you. We have a ton of folks who have walked a mile in your shoes that are happy to be here. I apologize if this rant sounds kinda dumb as I am not exactly among the intellectual elite.
 
800 guy...


face the true facts sir....you are being recycled! learn to adapt or become extinct. nobody cares what you choose, and nobody cares what you have to say.

good luck
 
shroomwell said:
Duane made references to the race to the bottom and lack of experienced pilots flying. Well if he really wants to do something, he could start a campaign to inform passengers that when they get on some flights the pilots don't always work for the company that is painted on the aircraft, and may have very different experience levels then they assumed.

Well, how about we do that. A major flaw in the Air Line Pilot thinking is ALPA should do this or that....

Why not every pilot do as you suggest. You got 100,000 Air Line Pilots out there...why not educate the passengers... I don't think there is much of a retrun on the effort...

Rather we should be focusing our efforts on legislation. How about a getting senators to sponser bills that protect and promote the Air Line Pilot Profession.
 
Chronic Jetlag said:
the harsh reality is this: Airline pilots possess a skill that's very much like a trade; we practice our trade and our employers compensate us with $$$. All of us are expendable, no different from one another. We all dream for the "good old days", the days of Pan Am, Eastern, TWA. But those days are long gone and as much as I hate to admit it I must roll with the punches and change with the times. Right now I still feel being an airline pilot is worth it. The day that I feel it's not worth it I'll pack it up and go sell real estate or be a greeter at Wal Mart but I promise you won't find me on this form blaming my fellow pilots for my woes with disparaging remarks!!!

One reason ALPA isn't considered just a trade union is because of it's Air Safety and Engineering dept. This part of ALPA is quite respectable and they bring something to the table. It has been said ALPA is the conscience of the air line industry. This is the self policing professional facet that ALPA brings and give us a little more repsect than just a trade union. Embrace it or reject it, but it is what it is...

Did you know that ALPA was instrumental in forming the predecessor to the NTSB?
 
800Dog said:
Actually Cuz, you seem clueless. Is 4th year captain pay at Jetblow not $118hr?(4th yr. based on your previous post) Absolutely pathetic! Do you have a contract? Other than the 5 year agreement signed with the company I mean. Did I say anything about you cleaning airplanes? Dumping the lavs? 25 cents per gallon? You seem awfully defensive. I suppose I would as well if I was whoring myself out to the lowest bidder. Enjoy it bro. I know you will, because your expectations are much lower than those of us who busted our asses to earn a degree as well as our flight training. Again, you are as much the enemy as management, probably worse!

800..WHERE did you say you work?
 
Yeah, wages have come down.

It's the American public, politics, and our economic system (national and global) that caused it. You got a hint of the problem when you saw the protests recently on CNN about the war and globalization of the economy. I think the protest was mostly about globalization. Without all the pay cuts (not just airline employees) or job displacements to companies with lower compensation, there would not be so much unrest.

Like ALPA/Duane Worth or not, his politicing for higher paid pilots can't be a bad thing. I just hope he does it in a manner that might do some good. We need to get our message out.

Like others have said, times have changed and we're all trying to make the best of it.



Midnight Mike,

Duane can't say JetBlue pilots are not ALPA because he isn't a JetBlue spokesman? Grow up.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton try to speak for "their people" all the time. But everyone I know, of all creeds or color, dislike them very much. This is America. People can make public statements about anything they want, as long as they aren't untrue, and its o.k. They don't have to be the "official" spokesman. As long as it qualifies as infotainment the press will print or show it.
 
Last edited:
FlyBoeingJets said:
Yeah, wages have come down.

It's the American public, politics, and our economic system (national and global) that caused it. You got a hint of the problem when you saw the protests recently on CNN about the war and globalization of the economy. I think the protest was mostly about globalization. Without all the pay cuts (not just airline employees) or job displacements to companies with lower compensation, there would not be so much unrest.

Like ALPA/Duane Worth or not, his politicing for higher paid pilots can't be a bad thing. I just hope he does it in a manner that might do some good. We need to get our message out.

Like others have said, times have changed and we're all trying to make the best of it.



Midnight Mike,

Duane can't say JetBlue pilots are not ALPA because he isn't a JetBlue spokesman? Grow up.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton try to speak for "their people" all the time. But everyone I know, of all creeds or color, dislike them very much. This is America. People can make public statements about anything they want, as long as they aren't untrue, and its o.k. They don't have to be the "official" spokesman. As long as it qualifies as infotainment the press will print or show it.

Good post. The problem is trying to figure out where the bottom is in this mess. It seems to be on an accelerated pace and nothing is being done to correct the problem.

Someone wrote on here recently that charity from labor will not overcome exorbitant oil and low fares. That's the truth. We've reached the point where "inefficiencies from deregulation" have been worked out and now they're just destroying peoples lives. Infuriating.
 

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