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Dream

Skyline

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Dreams,

Last night I had a vivid reoccurring dream. Every few weeks it plays like a movie while I sleep. In the dream I am on my first day of IOE at Alaska Airlines. It is a cool early morning before the sun is up, but I am warm and comfortible in my brand new leather jacket. The ramp is dark wet and shiney from the misty rain that is falling. I am accompanied by a check airman who is very nice and patient. He takes me through the preflight of a brand new 737NG. After that we climb the stairs on the jet way and enter the cabin we pass by passengers waiting to board. They are very nice and happy. I am glad to be wearing a clean and crisp well made new uniform. In the flight deck we go through all the flows and checklists. Throughout the dream I am very excited and happy. Everything goes well and is fun. The dream usually ends with the aircraft lined up for take off and the check airman giving me a supportive go ahead for power up. While dreaming I am happy and excited. I feel proud and satisfied that I made it to my goal and could look forward to a great career at my dream job. I get to sample just a little bit of what the joy must be like to really have a first day at a good company like that. Then I wake up and my sore back reminds me that I have to swing a hammer today. After being awake for a few minutes more the haze of sleep recedes and then I remember that Alaska Airlines has cut its pay and everyone is grumpy, angry and sad. And that since 911 the pax are mean and pushy. It is a great dream though. So real, I can still smell that new leather jacket.

Skyline
 

dseagrav

Student Dork
Joined
May 30, 2004
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357
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threve
I think this kind of dream is worse than the ones where the airplane is spinning and you can't break the spin, or whatever. You get a little glimpse of everything going right, then wake up to the disappointment that is reality.

Just makes you want to say 'Ferk it!' and go back to bed, doesn't it? (^_^)
 

avbug

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In the flight deck we go through all the flows and checklists. Throughout the dream I am very excited and happy. Everything goes well and is fun. The dream usually ends with the aircraft lined up for take off and the check airman giving me a supportive go ahead for power up.

You find checkrides exciting and fun, and they make you happy? Or is it just reading checklists that make you happy and excited?

You try so hard to spin things to your skewed viewpoint, in every post. Cute, dramatic, but what is your point?

Flying is an art, a job, a way of life, whatever. It is what it is, largely whatever you make it to be or accept it to be.

So you're not flying for a major airline, so you operated blindly for fifteen or twenty years, apparently missing the light of day that everybody else saw, and you're just waking up and letting everybody else know you're miserable. Who cares?

There's far more in life than flying for a major airline. If swinging a hammer is what you want, then have a ball. You use that as an apparent counterpoint to the beauty of being one of the coveted glorious top feeders (you remember...the only ones on planet Earth that aren't "flying trashmen?") as though these are the only two polar extremes available to you or anybody else.

Garbage.

If you choose to quit flying and frame houses, or tack shingles and roll tarpaper, that's your choice. Don't blame september 11 for your troubles as you perceive them to be. Don't blame the industry. It hasn't changed. It's still there, work still goes on, people still fly, the clouds are still wet.

And you're slinging a hammer.

Don't hit your thumb.
 

nitrogen

No crying while posting
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Mar 2, 2004
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An unique individual

The thing I love about the bug is that you never know how he's gonna respond to a post. Here's another one I can't figure. How he was able to turn this guys post into a criticism of his life views is beyond me.

To say the bug dances to his own toon (loony that is) is an understatement. In fact nobody else even hears the music. Well at least his posts make sense to him I guess. Since he's the only one that cares about what he says any more.

Bug, I think you might have forgotten to take your pills again.







avbug said:
You find checkrides exciting and fun, and they make you happy? Or is it just reading checklists that make you happy and excited?

You try so hard to spin things to your skewed viewpoint, in every post. Cute, dramatic, but what is your point?

Flying is an art, a job, a way of life, whatever. It is what it is, largely whatever you make it to be or accept it to be.

So you're not flying for a major airline, so you operated blindly for fifteen or twenty years, apparently missing the light of day that everybody else saw, and you're just waking up and letting everybody else know you're miserable. Who cares?

There's far more in life than flying for a major airline. If swinging a hammer is what you want, then have a ball. You use that as an apparent counterpoint to the beauty of being one of the coveted glorious top feeders (you remember...the only ones on planet Earth that aren't "flying trashmen?") as though these are the only two polar extremes available to you or anybody else.

Garbage.

If you choose to quit flying and frame houses, or tack shingles and roll tarpaper, that's your choice. Don't blame september 11 for your troubles as you perceive them to be. Don't blame the industry. It hasn't changed. It's still there, work still goes on, people still fly, the clouds are still wet.

And you're slinging a hammer.

Don't hit your thumb.
 

A Squared

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nitrogen said:
How he was able to turn this guys post into a criticism of his life views is beyond me.
ummm because Skyline has been making a nusiance of himself for a couple of weeks, posting continually how much aviation sucks how badly his dreams have been crushed, how he's wasted the best years of his life, and has been overtly insulting anyone who does not fly for an airline (and some that do). I think he calles all non-airline pilots "garbage men" Avbug's response was not just out of the blue.
 

pilotmiketx

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oodles
A Squared said:
I think he calles all non-airline pilots "garbage men"

Obviously has no idea who they let fly on airliners anymore. Hasn't seen 90% of the $99 round-trip crowd. I flew freight that smelled better than any of the fat, sweaty, bad-breath having, shoe-removing, burping, farting, complaining, too much carry-on luggage having, sour old bastards that sit next to me on every cursed Southwest flight.
 

Gulfstream 200

Database Expert
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pilotmiketx said:
Obviously has no idea who they let fly on airliners anymore. Hasn't seen 90% of the $99 round-trip crowd. I flew freight that smelled better than any of the fat, sweaty, bad-breath having, shoe-removing, burping, farting, complaining, too much carry-on luggage having, sour old bastards that sit next to me on every cursed Southwest flight.


that is, by far, the best decription of Southwest cargo I have ever heard.

100% right-on.
 

whaleroast

I like cupcakes
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pilotmiketx said:
Obviously has no idea who they let fly on airliners anymore. Hasn't seen 90% of the $99 round-trip crowd. I flew freight that smelled better than any of the fat, sweaty, bad-breath having, shoe-removing, burping, farting, complaining, too much carry-on luggage having, sour old bastards that sit next to me on every cursed Southwest flight.

My ex-wife sit next you last week to Burbank?
 

Skyline

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Posts
230
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Dear Bug

avbug said:
You find checkrides exciting and fun, and they make you happy? Or is it just reading checklists that make you happy and excited?

You try so hard to spin things to your skewed viewpoint, in every post. Cute, dramatic, but what is your point?

Flying is an art, a job, a way of life, whatever. It is what it is, largely whatever you make it to be or accept it to be.

So you're not flying for a major airline, so you operated blindly for fifteen or twenty years, apparently missing the light of day that everybody else saw, and you're just waking up and letting everybody else know you're miserable. Who cares?

There's far more in life than flying for a major airline. If swinging a hammer is what you want, then have a ball. You use that as an apparent counterpoint to the beauty of being one of the coveted glorious top feeders (you remember...the only ones on planet Earth that aren't "flying trashmen?") as though these are the only two polar extremes available to you or anybody else.

Garbage.

If you choose to quit flying and frame houses, or tack shingles and roll tarpaper, that's your choice. Don't blame september 11 for your troubles as you perceive them to be. Don't blame the industry. It hasn't changed. It's still there, work still goes on, people still fly, the clouds are still wet.

And you're slinging a hammer.

Don't hit your thumb.


Dear Bug,

You are my best friend here. Thanks again for coming to my rescue, however I disagree with you on a few points.

First of all this is an aviation forum and I am not to pleased with flying right now, so yea I will be a little bit of a sad sack here. Outside of this topic I am quite happy and have a growing and successful business. My family is well and I get to live in my home town.

Another point I would like to make is referred to in my original post. The industry has changed. It changed out from under me. It isn't the same anymore at all.

IOE isn't a check ride. It is flight instruction for airline pilots. The first day of IOE is the first chance you have to actually fly the plane after months of studying and training, so it is kind of fun and exciting.

And lastly most other jobs in aviation are a trail of abuse and self destruction.

Garbage men of the sky really isn't a fair comparison or title. Garbage men actually have a good job these days and are well cared for.


Great to hear from you,

Skyline
 

Swede

Live from Caracas
Joined
May 26, 2004
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IOE's in general are pretty decent trips. Bad check airmen are generally weeded out in a darwinian fashion and the ones that are left, at least at my airline, are good.

Bad cargo is one of the reasons I went to, and will remain, international. The pax, especially foreign nationals, are appreciative, friendly, and cooperative. A far cry from the accurate description by Pilot Mike.

9-11 HAS changed airline ops for the worse, and it'll never go back. I can picture a scene from 2025 - Old skipper who flew right seat before 9-11... "Yup, waaay back before 2001, we actually had GOOD FOOD served with real metal eating utensils... not this soylent green crap. And get this - when you had to take a leak, you simply went back... ALL BY YOURSELF! There was only ONE of us in the cockpit! Best of all, HOT, YOUNG flight attendants would ACTUALLY come up unannounced, pop the door open, and sit and chat with us!"

NOOOO WAAAAAAY!!

:rolleyes: (Already longing for the 'good ol' days)
 

flydrummer

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Sep 5, 2005
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3.0
pilotmiketx said:
Obviously has no idea who they let fly on airliners anymore. Hasn't seen 90% of the $99 round-trip crowd. I flew freight that smelled better than any of the fat, sweaty, bad-breath having, shoe-removing, burping, farting, complaining, too much carry-on luggage having, sour old bastards that sit next to me on every cursed Southwest flight.

Haha! Does anyone watch Airline on the A&E channel? I love that show. It's like COPS for the airline industry. Perfect examples of the typical Southwest pax. They should start allowing the flight crew to mix a little mace into the cabin ventilation system for those unruly flights :)
 

Goose Egg

Big Jens
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avbug said:
Flying is an art, a job, a way of life, whatever. It is what it is, largely whatever you make it to be or accept it to be.

If I were going to choose a phrase to be cross-stiched, framed, and hung in a prominent place in my home, that would be it. 100% dead on, in my book.

There's far more in life than flying for a major airline.

That's what I keep trying to tell Skyline!

nitrogen said:
To say the bug dances to his own toon [sic] is an understatement. In fact nobody else even hears the music. Well at least his posts make sense to him I guess.

I don't always agree with "the bug," but when I'm dealing with one who has a knowledge base so extensive, I always want to hear what he has to say. If avbug dances to his own tune, then I'm playing with the radio dial to see if I can get a better signal.

-Goose
 
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FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
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flydrummer said:
They should start allowing the flight crew to mix a little mace into the cabin ventilation system for those unruly flights :)
I could see nitrious oxide or something similiar, but mace would only start a riot back there.
 

Skyline

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Major Airlines

Avbug, Mother Goose,

You guys keep bagging on poor old skyline about his airline dreams. Nothing else compares to having a schedule, good benefits, a raising pay scale, clean new and dependable equipment and a team of people who do all the work for you (Like, dispatchers, fuelers, baggage handlers, FA's ect).

Some of the pearls of wisdom that I have learned from you two.

Avbug,

"Aim low and you will never be disappointed"

"Expect to get pushed around by small time employers and they will not let you down"

"happiness can be found in being away from home for months on end on a thankless job with few rewards."

Mother Goose,

"Denial is your friend. As long as you keep your eyes closed your dream job will never not appear"

"If your finger gets stuck in a bottle don't fight to pull it out. Learn to accept its unity with your finger and soon it they will become as one."

The Dali Lama once told a story about the faithful ramper.

"Every day this ramper would end his shift being covered in human waste and filth since his job was to empty the septic tanks on the incoming planes. One of his friends offered him a job working in his clean office. The rampers reply was "WHAT !!! AND LEAVE AVIATION"? "

Soon those bald headed guys in robes who ask for money at the airport will be the pilots.

You forget that I have worked a wide range of pilot jobs. I know just what kind of misery awaits those at corporate, charter, medevac, bush flying, flight instructing, missionary flying, forest service contract flying and of course the airlines. I also have spent a career studying my co-workers to learn from thier mistakes and sucesses. The airlines are boring and will suck the life out of you but in the long run a job at SWA will be a benifit to you. All the other stuff will leave you broke sad and alone. Even the good corporate jobs don't last very long. Your best bet is to get on with a good airline as fast as possible.

Skyline
 

ePilot22

BuyTheTicket~TakeTheRide
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nfinit
Thanks Skyline! Now that I know what to expect after all I invested to get this far, I need to quit before I lose any more! Yeah, I'll go break my back working constructions, or waste my life away going to the same buliding, sitting in the same cube day in and day out never seeing the sun rise or set because I need to leave two hours early for work to beat the traffic and then stay late to get some half assed project completed just to find out that nobody really knows how it should be done in the first place. Better yet, I find a good waiter job, or I know 7-11. Wait StarBucks treats their employees really well, I have enough education I sould be able to serve coffee ALL day long.

Nope! In the cockpit behind the yoke, aloft in the sky is where I belong. Don't get me wrong, I'm currently an independent contract CFI and my job hangs in the hands of the club manager. No funny looks from me! Do I like it, no. It is worth it! Every second and penny! Would I do it again? Yep!

Aviation will never be the "glory days" it was 40 or 50 years ago and we may never get the respect we deserve as pilots but don't let that distort you feelings or perceptions of what it is to fly!

Tom
 

Skyline

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ePilot22

Dear epilot,

Don't get me wrong. At one time I was a 22 year old boy scout just like you. Times change man. Experience has a way of dulling enthusiasm. You still need to make a living for your self. I too started out doing those kinds of jobs and after almost 20 years of flying I am back to construction. Not by choice, but the pay and working conditions at most flying jobs are incongruous with a normal family life. Most of the people who I was a young pilot with and had shared flying dreams have quit and the tiny few who are left dream of quitting.
Go out there take a stab it it perhaps it will work out for you, but the majority fall by the wayside. I don't envy the ones who supposedly made it either. The price they paid was too high.

Skyline
 

Goose Egg

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Skyline said:
You forget that I have worked a wide range of pilot jobs.

Oh no. I haven't forgotten.

I know just what kind of misery awaits those at corporate, charter, medevac, bush flying, flight instructing, missionary flying, forest service contract flying and of course the airlines. (emphasis added)

But Skyline, I'm not miserable flight instructing. Anything but! And believe me, I've been at it long enough to have become miserable. Could I be making better money and having a better "QOL" doing something else non-flying? Of course I could, but I don't want to do something else. I want to do this. That's how I define my quality of my life.

I also have spent a career studying my co-workers to learn from thier mistakes and sucesses. The airlines are boring and will suck the life out of you but in the long run a job at SWA will be a benifit to you.

But if it bores me and sucks the life out of me, and if "misery awaits," how is that a benefit?

All the other stuff will leave you broke sad and alone.

That is a very broad and sweeping generalization. I personally know several people who are not airline pilots and do not fit the "broke, sad, and alone" description.

-Goose
 
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Skyline

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Goose

Goose,

No I haven't heard of the term "spurious correlation", I can imagine what it means, but I haven't seen any 60 year old career flight instructors either. Enjoy your CFI job. I don't care what you do. Someone has to do it I guess.

I don't accept your analogy that everything has to be fun and satisfying however. A plumber who is unsticking you toilet isn't having fun. The poor guy who picks up your garbage every week isn't having fun either. These are the hard choices that real people make to earn a living everyday. If I were to do exactly what I think is fun and satisfying everyday then I suppose I would sit on the couch with a 32 oz bottle of King Cobra malt liquor and play XBox.

Being a career CFI is an unrealistic asperation. Sure it is a means to an end, but to what end? That is the question. It dosent pay a livible wage. Perhaps you are financially independent. (you must be) Well that is great !! Good for you. Maybe you can also hand out blankets to the poor on your way home from work. However you can't deny that along with being low pay it is also dangerious. It is wise to minimise your time in the more dangerious areas of this profession. I probably would have enjoyed being a CFI more if I were not starving at the time.

I think it was Tony Robbins who said that all progress is made through dissatisfaction. If you truley love being a CFI then you will happily be there for a long long time. I hope you are rich and made of steel.

Skyline
 

ePilot22

BuyTheTicket~TakeTheRide
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nfinit
Skyline said:
If I were to do exactly what I think is fun and satisfying everyday then I suppose I would sit on the couch with a 32 oz bottle of King Cobra malt liquor and play XBox.


Skyline,

Trust me that gets old quick! I've worked construction, security, pizza shop, etc. and I've found that it's all the same. Currently I sit in that cube I described earlier just to earn money to build my flight time. Yep, I pay to fly the 152 to MCK just because (well, it's fun too!). But really choose something for the list below and seek some help man! You seem to have a gloom about life itself and that's not healthy.

Adapin, Anafranil, Asendin, Aventyl, Desyrel, Effexor, Elavil, Ludiomil, Luvox, Marplan, Nardil, Norpramin, Pamelor, Parnate, Paxil, Pertofrane, Prozac, Remeron, Serzone, Sinequan, Surmontin, Tofranil, Vivactil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft

I hope things work out for you where ever you're at!

Tom
 
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