DOT seeks age 60 opinion, young guys speak up

[Klako]

why dont you old farts pop some viagra and go enjoy some time away from flying. I dont get why someone would want to do this job a single day past 60. If you are nearing that age, you made it through the golden years of aviation/pay, and if you didnt save up enough to make it through your own golden years...THATS NOT MY PROBLEM. Quit pulling up the ladder behind you. You reaped the benifits of the age 60 rule, now get outta my seat. If safety is not a factor as many of you are saying, then why cant the flight go unless a young buck is in the next seat. I personaly dont care about the safety factor, nor do I think most of the protests to the rule REALLY care about it either. Its the fact that your still lingering around stinkin of moth balls when you should be home huggin the wife and grandkids.

THIS COMMENT IS DISGUSTING!

Safety is the lie that ALPA and APA have been spouting to mask blatant ageism directed against its most senior pilots. In reality, they are promoting institutionalized age discrimination against senior pilots, insuring an accelerated job advancement scheme for junior pilots.
In July 1979 Captain J. J. O’Donnell, then president of ALPA, testifies before the House Public Works and Transportation Committee: Congressman Anderson: “I gather from your testimony before the Select Committee on Aging that some of your members do not want to see the Age 60 Rule ended. Do those who oppose ending the age 60 rule do so on the grounds of safety or economics?” Captain O’Donnell; “ I would be misleading [to say that] they do it on the basis of safety. ... t is economics to those who object to the change in the regulation.”
Understandably, junior pilots are worried that changing the “Age 60 Rule” would cause promotional stagnation. What junior pilots need to understand is that, if they haven't realized it yet, promotions today---yesterday---and forever are related to growth--not attrition. Most pilots remember the mid to early 90's when a hiring frenzy produced six-month upgrades to Captains.

 

[zonker]

THIS COMMENT IS DISGUSTING!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Its the fact that your still lingering around stinkin of moth balls when you should be home huggin the wife and grandkids.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Klako]

Guess what buddy? No pilot shortage here despite of Kit Darby's spouting. You have thousands of furloughed qualified YOUNG pilots in this country. There is no need to jeopardize safety for you or others who have been making mid to high 100's for decades only because of their poor financial decisions.

Please spare us all your "old fart, behind the power curve, poor financial decisions" Cr@p. You and I both know the real motives behind your crass post.

What makes you think that junior pilots on furlough justifies the forced retirement senior pilots? Are you are saying that it is OK to force a senior experienced pilot into poverty just so a junior pilot can move up the seniority list a bit faster. Can you really be so brazen? Where do you draw your values from?

Do you not understand that our Constitution protects those in the minority from the mal intensions of the majority? When the State deprives a person of their liberty to work in a profession that they are qualified, this violates that person’s equal protection guarantied by our Constitution under the Fourteenth Amendment. This is why the “Age 60 Rule” must not stand.

 

[pipe]

Everyone please keep up the pressure. Klako is gonna "check out" shortly at this rate.

PIPE

 

[NoJoy]

I like the ageism part though. Apparently it's been ageism for decades; maybe there should be a class action lawsuite agianst the FAA for this.

 

[Freight Dog]

Please spare us all your "old fart, behind the power curve, poor financial decisions" Cr@p. You and I both know the real motives behind your crass post.

What makes you think that junior pilots on furlough justifies the forced retirement senior pilots? Are you are saying that it is OK to force a senior experienced pilot into poverty just so a junior pilot can move up the seniority list a bit faster. Can you really be so brazen? Where do you draw your values from?

Do you not understand that our Constitution protects those in the minority from the mal intensions of the majority? When the State deprives a person of their liberty to work in a profession that they are qualified, this violates that person’s equal protection guarantied by our Constitution under the Fourteenth Amendment. This is why the “Age 60 Rule” must not stand.

Let's talk about "forced retirement." Should we have some bent metal as a result of aged crew before "forcing" people to retire?

You know the old joke... I want to die peacefully like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers. Is that going to be our new indicator of retirement age? With the number of qualified pilots in this country, there is really no need for that.

Your Constitution argument does not stand either. You are free to seek aviation employment away from the airlines. You can go fly a bizjet for some movie star or executive, or you can enjoy your retirement. Hopefully you planned for it.

Now please, tell us all. Do you really think that you're just as sharp as you were 10, 15, 20 years ago?

 

[BoilerUP]

It has been said before...

What say the Pro-65 crowd about the mandatory retirement age of Air Traffic Controllers at age 56?

 

[Lear70]

Your Constitution argument does not stand either.

Actually, yes it does. It is the ONLY argument that has been presented thus far that has its basis in established legal practice and precedent.

To be completely honest, it's something the ATC folks should pursue as well. No need to completely kick people out of their sector until they are physically and mentally unable to perform the job any longer and if they had medical and operational testing periodically as we do, I don't see the problem there either.

You are free to seek aviation employment away from the airlines. You can go fly a bizjet for some movie star or executive, or you can enjoy your retirement. Hopefully you planned for it.

Again, that's not for YOU to decide. This country gives everyone EQUAL right to pursue their life and livelihood.

Your argument is akin to telling black people back in the 40's that they were free to take the bus and go watch a movie, as long as it wasn't the white bus or white movie theater, i.e. "away from the whites"... sound familiar? (your quote, "away from the airlines").

It's all discrimination, whether you want to admit it or not. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL SOMEONE WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO BASED ON THEIR AGE.

People like you are the reason why OBAP and WIA exists and why there is now an association for airline pilots being forced to retire at an age that has no basis other than "that's how it's always been". That's exactly what was said with women and other ethnic group pilots.

How do you think THAT changed? You guessed it, through lawsutis and lobbying and then the airlines couldn't hire them FAST enough and we ended up with the EEOC in a safety-sensitive career field instead of letting everyone compete on an EVEN playing field based on their MERIT (accomplishment, personality, and ability).

If it's a safety-sensitive career, let people get IN when their skills and health allow it and only make them LEAVE when their skills and health NO LONGER allow it.

Now please, tell us all. Do you really think that you're just as sharp as you were 10, 15, 20 years ago?

Actually, it takes more to fly one of those fancy bizjets in and out of ASE, TEB, etc than it does to fly a 757 in and out of ATL or ORD.

When's the last time you dropped a Lear or G-4 across Red Table or did the VOR-A circle-to-land at TEB? MUCH more challenging then our high-density yet very controlled Part 121 air system.

But, by your argument, you would take a guy out of his 20+ year patterned environment when YOU say his skill set is degraded and put him in an even MORE challenging environment that he hasn't seen for a couple decades, if ever.

I'm sure your Gulfstream passengers would LOVE the fact that their body count doesn't factor into your expert risk assessment.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Now please, tell us all. Do you really think that you're just as sharp as you were 10, 15, 20 years ago?

I have read some but not all the posts on this thread. Alot are not making sense. Freight Dog, please tell me how sharp you need to be to take off on the wrong runway, or to bury a 727 short of the runway (Fedex-TLH), how about trying to land in an active thunderstorm. I don't bring up these examples to pick on any individuals, just to point out that poor judgement and complacency are the enemy, not our age.

 

[Oh-ryan]

It has been said before...

What say the Pro-65 crowd about the mandatory retirement age of Air Traffic Controllers at age 56?

not part of the "Pro-65 crowd", but ATC guys start collecting their government pension/health care the day they retire. Not so much for airline pilots.

Something's gotta give... increase it to 65 or lower the social security age to 60 for airline pilots.