Does your contract protect you for 30 in 7 and 8 hour limits?

[Beetle007]

The new FAA rest requirements will often increase the 8 hour limit to 9 or 10 hours and it will eliminate the 30 hrs in 7 days limit. The proposed FAA rule will also eliminate compensatory rest. The company can make you fly as much as they want and only give you 9 hours of rest a night. They can also reduce you to 8 hours a night once a week without any compensatory rest the next night.

At Spirit airlines, we have the 8 hour limit in our contract and the 30 in 7 in our contract. We also have the compensatory rest requirements in our contract. These are contractual limits and the new FAA rules won't change our contract.

So which other airlines have the 30 in 7, 8 hour max, and compensatory rest in their contracts?

 

[General Lee]

The new FAA rest requirements will often increase the 8 hour limit to 9 or 10 hours and it will eliminate the 30 hrs in 7 days limit. The proposed FAA rule will also eliminate compensatory rest. The company can make you fly as much as they want and only give you 9 hours of rest a night. They can also reduce you to 8 hours a night once a week without any compensatory rest the next night.

At Spirit airlines, we have the 8 hour limit in our contract and the 30 in 7 in our contract. We also have the compensatory rest requirements in our contract. These are contractual limits and the new FAA rules won't change our contract.

So which other airlines have the 30 in 7, 8 hour max, and compensatory rest in their contracts?

A birdy told me Dalpa has a lot of protections in it's contract with DL.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Beetle007]

A birdy told me Dalpa has a lot of protections in it's contract with DL.....

I couldn't find the Delta contract on Airlinepilotcentral.

I did notice that Continental doesn't have any contractual protections but United has some protections.

I also noticed that American has the 8 hour limit in their contract but I forgot to check for 30 in 7 or the compensatory rest.

Airlines without contracts like Virgin America and jetBlue will really benefit from this new FAA rest requirements that eliminates almost all protections.

 

[GuppyWN]

WN has rest requirements and duty restrictions but defers to FAA limits for flight time.

Gup

 

[Beetle007]

Thanks GUP. I'm just trying to get an idea of how this will affect the industry. Airlines will have to follow the most restrictive of the regs or the contracts so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Green Banana]

Those limits will change once carrot it dangled in front of the senior pilots. 10 hrs a day and work 8 days a month.......right.

 

[General Lee]

Those limits will change once carrot it dangled in front of the senior pilots. 10 hrs a day and work 8 days a month.......right.

10 hour days can only have two total legs. It might benefit SWA's BWI pilots with LAS or PHX turns. Other airlines probably have more flights due to more frequent transcons.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Thanks GUP. I'm just trying to get an idea of how this will affect the industry. Airlines will have to follow the most restrictive of the regs or the contracts so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

If a pilot group has a restrictive contract that covers rest rules and hours flown per day, then the company really has a double wammy. The company will have to follow the new rules that benefit the pilots, and at the same time not be allowed to follow the new rules that would have benefited them thanks to the contract being enforced. I think there are a few airlines that have that situation.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Beetle007]

The companies that will flourish under these new rest rules are the crappy airlines with bad contracts (or no contract).

Make no mistake, these new rest rules are bad for pilots and good for the company.

 

[Mike man]

These are contractual limits and the new FAA rules won't change our contract.

That is hands down the funniest thing ever posted on FI...Spirit management honoring the contract.

The companies that will flourish under these new rest rules are the crappy airlines with bad contracts (or no contract).

Just like Spirit with the crappy contract...as far as flourish BBB and his crew are too stupid to flourish anything.

Make no mistake, these new rest rules are bad for pilots and good for the company.

The old rest rules were the same way...why did you think the new ones would be different?

ALPA, APA and the Teamsters need to get some balls and end this battle once and for all. Greedy airline management needs to be stopped and put in their place...back in the 40's, 50's and 60's when ALPA was fighting for work rules, rest rules, flying limits and so on, the RLA was in effect and applied to the airlines, but that didn't stop them then...why now?

 

[Beetle007]

That is hands down the funniest thing ever posted on FI...Spirit management honoring the contract.

Airlines will honor contracts only to the extent it is enforced by an arbitrator

Spirit ALPA won the 4 day off arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the 401K arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the training hotel arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the Domestic Flight time limits also being applied to international flight times arbitration

Spirit can get out of grey language for a period of 2 to 4 months. Then they are stuck with the decision of the arbitrator.

 

[Mike man]

Airlines will honor contracts only to the extent it is enforced by an arbitrator

Spirit ALPA won the 4 day off arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the 401K arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the training hotel arbitration
Spirit ALPA won the Domestic Flight time limits also being applied to international flight times arbitration

Spirit can get out of grey language for a period of 2 to 4 months. Then they are stuck with the decision of the arbitrator.

Spirit will only honor a CBA to the extent that an arbitrator orders them to...other airlines make an agreement and stick to it. Most airline management does not actively hunt out gray language in their CBA's to exploit and pillage their pilot groups...once they make an agreement they stick to it like men and not like the snakes in Miramar.

The new transition conflict resolution has no gray language, the new contract even has examples in picture format (Homer Simpson can understand that) there is no possible way to not understand or misinterpret it but Spirit management chooses not to follow the contract they agreed to just a few short weeks ago...in fact they even honored the new transition conflict for about 24 hours until they sent an email to the effected pilots notifying them they are back on their trips, the company is changing the transition rules and to contact ALPA.

Spirit Pilot Group lost 4 days off for 6 months...and got nothing in return
Spirit Pilot Group lost money and control of out 401(k)'s for weeks...and got nothing in return
Spirit Pilot Group lost per diem and had to pay out of pocket for hotels for several months...and only got what they had in receipts
Spirit Pilot Group was forced to endure months of 32-in-7 international flying for several months...and got nothing in return

I do digress, we did get one thing, an arbitrator telling management to follow the contract.

76% of Spirit pilots were wrong, did you really and honestly believe they would stick to the new CBA?

Why is it that ZERO of the pilots I have flown with since June voted es for the new CBA...it just does not add up, how can that be?

Why hasn't ALPA provided us with a paper copy of the new CBA? Because it is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Don't forget Spirit ALPA gave up 150% overtime for nothing and more than doubled our health insurance for pay parody in 2015 with slightly less than 2010 JetBlue rates...thanks SPA ALPA, you suck!

 

[Draginass]

Wasn't ALPA and the Deltoids pushing for a 9 hour fly day???

 

[dispatchguy]

Didnt JBU try and get an exemption a few years back to where they could to a transcontinental turn, like a JFK-LGB-JFK turn?

How would that go with these new "rules"