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Does SAPA do all this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nevets
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Negotiating Committee?

Now that's funny!!!

You mean the same negotiating committee that LEFT OUT Horizon and Expressjet when writing up a comparison of regional payscales? (hmm, I wonder why....?)

You mean the same negotiating committee that negotiated a 0% raise for Brasilia pilots. (by the way, how many years did it take to negotiate that 0% raise?)

You mean the same negotiating committee that negotiated a 1% raise for RJ pilots?

Oh ya, is that the same committee that negotiated $0.00 in retro pay?


amcnd, would you say the negotiating committee sets a "high bar" for itself?
 
Nevets,
You know, I don't wish to put you down, but why do you care? I finally agree with siucavflight in that it really doesn't effect you. I come to this board and see all these posts by 'others'. Now you say we compare ourselves to the ones having a hard time. Indeed we do. Then you mention some others, as though those guys are much better, well....just because your management at Express Jet gave you this 'great' contract, remember too that at the time you guys were the big of big to CA. Now that you are not, and your management had to open up to Delta and your own branded flying, do you think your contract will last? I don't. And not because I think Express Jet or your management sucks, but because ExJ has entered a new realm. It is funny how alot of ALPA carrier pilots are on this wagon, wishing we would join them. Honestly, how many are happy? Why would we want what you have? You (I mean all who come here to complain about their lives) think that that is a good argument? Look at other posts people leave behind about their own company and you will also see their misery. Sorry, it is not that bad here and I don't want to see itbecome like everywhere else. I would like to see a bigger piece of the pie, but you know, I didn't get furloughed after 9/11. This pie allowed me to keep my job, unlike others who's management had to let them. go. How easy people forget. Things are not perfect here, but you know I still like it and I know that many do too. I hear all the time on this board how these young pilot's option, who were at other airlines and came here, is junk because they only spent a year or two at an ALPA carrier. But you know, they are happier here. You can't refute that. And this crap about well SkYW pilots don't want to give up their early upgrade. Now be serious! I know not one of you, thou holier than thou type, that are out there would turn down an upgrade. You are pissed because you made the wrong choice and went somewhere else.
 
Guys seriously who cares? If SKW votes in ALPA it will affect the SKW guys, if they dont it will affect the SKW guys. I am at Eagle, and very pro ALPA, but I have to say that Whether or not SKW is ALPA or not does not really change how I do my job. There is not a single person on here who can argue that they are undercutting any other regional, their pay is on par with the rest of us, and they are growing like crazy.
The only thing that I can say to you at SKW is remember even though it is good right now, there will be tough times ahead, there always are. And it is nice to have someone watching your back for you.(And by tough times it does not always mean for your whole pilot group, it could be just you that needs ALPAs help)
Good luck with the vote, either way SKW is still a good place to be!

An argument could be made that they undercut the industry when they started flying the 700. They were the first regional airline to fly the 200/700 for the same rate.
 
Nevets,
You know, I don't wish to put you down, but why do you care? I finally agree with siucavflight in that it really doesn't effect you.

I've already answered that question on this very thread. Here is what I said:

"Here is how it can affect us all. I have no doubt that if Skywest votes for ALPA, they will have the industry leading contract in wages, work rules, and retirement. If they raise the bar, it makes it easier for the next guy to raise the bar.

Even the FedEx guys that were at the ALPA drive in LAX were saying that if Skywest can raise the bar, the will raise it to such a level where even the majors will start looking at them to raise the lower end of their bar. And that helps the next major that is going to into section 6 negotiations. These were FedEx guys who are at the top of the industry mind you."

You have to look at the big picture here. This is what I'm trying to do. For people to look just a little bit beyond themselves. This is the mentality that I'm trying to get you guys/gals away from.

I come to this board and see all these posts by 'others'. Now you say we compare ourselves to the ones having a hard time. Indeed we do. Then you mention some others, as though those guys are much better,

I never said that. BigHangar said that.


well....just because your management at Express Jet gave you this 'great' contract, remember too that at the time you guys were the big of big to CA. Now that you are not, and your management had to open up to Delta and your own branded flying, do you think your contract will last? I don't. And not because I think Express Jet or your management sucks, but because ExJ has entered a new realm.

Let me be clear on this. Our management didn't give us anything! We negotiated what we have! I guess this is what you don't understand.

But since you brought it up, let me point to you some information. CAL decided they were going to release 25% of the aircraft from the CPA on December 28, 2005. Shortly thereafter, management came to us wanting a contract extension (original amendment date of December 2008 extended to December 2010). To provide assurances to potential customers. From LOA 8 we got:

o Total yearly pay rate increase for almost all pilots of 5.75% beginning on December 1, 2008 (2.75%
increase on December 1, 2008, plus 3.0% longevity increase on anniversary of employment, but slightly
less for a few anniversary years).
o Total yearly pay rates increase of 6.0 % for almost all pilots beginning on December 1, 2009 (3%
increase on December 1, 2009, plus 3.0% longevity increase on anniversary of employment, but slightly
less for a few anniversary years).
o Per Diem increases to $1.75 on December 1, 2008.
o Per Diem increases to $1.80 on December 1, 2009.
• Establishes earlier openings for Section 6 negotiations, from 3-4 months prior to the amendable date to 6-7
months prior to the amendable date.
• Establishes a “preliminary” vacancy bid between 6 and 9 days after the opening of the bid window to allow
pilots to see what they might be awarded.
• Prevents line holders from having days off from being adjusted to below minimum during transition periods.
• Reduces a maximum duty day for RA days from 15.5 hours to 13.5 hours, including phone availability.
• Allows crews to deadhead home or to the hotel earlier than originally scheduled, if seats are available and
the entire crew travels together.
• Trip verification by pilots, online and by telephone, is cancelled.
• Allows pilots who meet commuter policy requirements to pick up their trip the next time it transits their
domicile.
• Establishes that the Company will post SWAP entry and exit information on CCS.
• Establishes that Airport Standby will not be awarded to a reserve on the last day of his block of duty days.
• Establishes an aggressive pickup window (APW) for reserves.
• Establishes between 5-10% of short call lines as “floating reserve” lines with 13 days off in a 30-day bid
period and 14 days off in a 31-day bid period.
• Establishes Bad-day/Worse-day trade provision for reserves.
• Provides additional time for trip pickup by lineholders by reducing reserve ownership from 18 hours to 15
hours for long-call reserves and from 12 hours to 9 hours for short-call reserves.
• Provides compensation at line pilot rates plus an $18 per hour override, with a 90 hour minimum monthly
guarantee (MMG) for all charter pilots.
• Establishes a daily rate of 5.5 hours, to include the $18 per hour override.
• Provides the same per diem as for line pilots.
• Pilots in the Charter Pool will bid into charter operations in four-bid-period blocks at a time, and will be
awarded by system seniority.
• Once in charter operations, pilots cannot be displaced unless staffing is reduced or by Company removal for
cause.
• The first bid period (Jan-Mar. ’07 line bid periods) will have specific vacancies at some or all of the three
existing domiciles.
• Beginning April 1, 2007, charter pilots will establish a “home-base” airport from which they will originate
and terminate trips, based on criteria in the charter provisions.
o Beginning with the second bid period (May-Aug. ’07 line bid periods), charter vacancies will not have a
specific location or be at domiciles.
o At the end of a 4-bid-period block, charter pilots may elect to return to the line or remain in charter
operations.
• Charter pilots have a minimum of 14 days off.
• Show time on the first day of a block of duty days is NET 0400 LT at the charter pilot’s origination airport.
• Charter pilots will be scheduled to return to their origination airport NLT 2359 LT on the last day of a block
of duty days. If they arrive after 0400 LT the day after, they will be paid 150% of their daily pay (including
override).
• Charter pilots can pick up trips in open time on days off or during vacation in charter operations if:



So you can see that despite CAL release of our aircraft we got an increase in pay rates and per diem, better work rules and QOL, comparable pay rates and work rules to Netjets for our charter guys/gals. None of this could have been possible without ALPA. If ALPA wouldn't have been here, the company would have been obligated to do anything since there was no contract to begin with. By the way, the only thing we gave up on this deal, a two year extension to an industry leading contract! And all this with only a few months of negotiating.

It is funny how alot of ALPA carrier pilots are on this wagon, wishing we would join them. Honestly, how many are happy? Why would we want what you have? You (I mean all who come here to complain about their lives) think that that is a good argument? Look at other posts people leave behind about their own company and you will also see their misery. Sorry, it is not that bad here and I don't want to see itbecome like everywhere else. I would like to see a bigger piece of the pie, but you know, I didn't get furloughed after 9/11. This pie allowed me to keep my job, unlike others who's management had to let them. go. How easy people forget. Things are not perfect here, but you know I still like it and I know that many do too. I hear all the time on this board how these young pilot's option, who were at other airlines and came here, is junk because they only spent a year or two at an ALPA carrier. But you know, they are happier here. You can't refute that. And this crap about well SkYW pilots don't want to give up their early upgrade. Now be serious! I know not one of you, thou holier than thou type, that are out there would turn down an upgrade.

Look, no one can make everybody happy. Especially pilots. And I'll be the first one to tell you that ALPA isn't perfect. But that doesn't prevent ALPA from being able to make where things "are not that bad here" to being the indisputable best regional to work for. I don't want it to become like Horizon, Air Wisconsin, or even XJT. I would like it to be ten times better than any of those places.

You didn't get furloughed but the pilots that did wasn't because of ALPA. As a matter of fact, ALPA helped furloughed XJT pilots get jobs at Skywest and helped Indy Air guys get jobs at XJT. That is what ALPA does. If people do get furloughed, they try to work out deals for them to find jobs at other places. Is Skywest going to do that if they furlough you? It doesn't matter where you work as far as predicting furloughs because it can happen anywhere.

As far as upgrades, they vary from airline to airline. There are some bad ones with fast upgrades and some good ones with fast upgrades as well. But it can change tomorrow. Lets face it, you wont know if we made the right decision on who to work for until the day after we retire. So its a moot argument.

You are pissed because you made the wrong choice and went somewhere else.

Wrong! I actually answered this question previously on this thread as well. Here is what I said, "Oh yeah, I'm very happy here. It was actually choice 3 out of 3 for regionals. But now I'm glad this is where I am instead of the other two places."

Knowing what I know now, if I had to do it over again, I would choose XJT again. Again, we don't know until the day after retirement so my opinion may change on that day.
 
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More proof that ALPA does care about regional pilots.

Release #07.TSA2
October 24, 2007


ALPA Pledges $2 Million to Trans States Airlines Pilots to Fund Efforts to Secure a Fair Labor Contract
WASHINGTON – Trans States Airlines (TSA) pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), were granted access to $2 million from the union’s Major Contingency Fund (MCF) as contract negotiations with management approach the two-year mark.
The allocation provides the TSA pilots with the needed resources to fully prepare themselves and their families for a strike in the event that a fair agreement cannot be reached at the bargaining table.
“We’ve spent the past two years, and a lot of money, vigorously and successfully defending grievances for several wrongfully terminated pilots,” said Capt. Jason Ruszin, chairman of the TSA unit of ALPA, “so this money will go a long way in educating and informing our pilots on how to prepare for what can happen down the road. Trans States is a successful, financially secure airline because of pilot sacrifice, so we are not going to accept any management proposal that would continue to make us the lowest paid pilots in the industry.”
Trans States pilots began direct contract negotiations in February 2006 and entered mediated negotiations in December 2006, yet the two sides have only tentatively agreed to language in 12 of the 30 contract sections.
In 2005, management wrongfully terminated five union leaders in an effort to undermine the union’s effectiveness in representing the TSA pilots. All terminations have been successfully grieved.
With headquarters in St. Louis, Mo., Trans States Airlines is the fifth largest independent (privately held) regional airline in the U.S., and flies regional jet service to 46 cities under the US Airways Express, United Express and American Connection banners.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union representing more than 60,000 cockpit crewmembers at 41 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.



# # #
ALPA Contact: Jason Ruszin, 610-805-5387
Kimberly Seitz, 703-481-4463
 
They are there just ask. Im not going to name names on this board..

Quote:
Originally Posted by amcnd
There are people at SkyWest that do all that already. We have a ASAP committee. We have a full security team. SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!! so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

The key to my original post is that is it in the best interest of Skywest pilots. The people on these ALPA committees are pilots helping pilots. Not someone employed by management.

For example, the Pro standards committee is there to resolve issues between pilots WITHOUT getting the chief pilot or management involved. That way there is no disciplinary action taken since it is pilots helping pilots resolve their issues with themselves.

Also, you mentioned ASAP. From what I understand, your ASAP is NOT de-identified. The ALPA Safety Committee has a member(s) that de-identify the report BEFORE management receives it. Our pilots are in charge of doing this. This is done through a Memo of Understanding between the FAA, management, and the pilots.

Second, we have many AMEs also, but again, he/she is paid by ALPA to look out after ALPA members interests only. They even help you through the bureaucratic red tape process to keep or get your medical back. All at no extra charge.

Third, your negotiating committee. What is it you negotiate? Do you understand that you are an "at will" employee? They don't negotiate anything with you. They just let you think they are.

Lastly, that was just a partial list. Some other committees are Merger, CIRP, HIMS, Pilot Mentor, Pilot to Pilot, Legislative Affairs. The committees vary from MEC to MEC. Its whatever YOU decided your pilots need.

Everything on my list is something you don't have. Because the people that would volunteer for those committees would not be beholden to your management. They would only be serving to benefit your pilots FIRST.
 
Just to be clear, i have been involved with SAPA and we do not have a Pro Standards committee, there is no AME on hand, there is no negotiating committee, all negotiating is done by the executive board, there is no security team. SAPA has none of these. NONE. Do I make myself clear?
 
Skywest management: "Pilots, here are your new wage rates."

Any other questions, Nevets?

Last time I checked, Skywest flies 90 seaters for 50 seat wages too. Thank god SAPA negotiated such a greeeeeaaaat deal.
 
Skywest management: "Pilots, here are your new wage rates."

Any other questions, Nevets?

Last time I checked, Skywest flies 90 seaters for 50 seat wages too. Thank god SAPA negotiated such a greeeeeaaaat deal.

There has to be some "formula" for lack of a better word, on how they come up with them.
 
How does Skywest go about setting pay rates for their aircraft?[/quot\

The pilots at Skywest voted in favor of flying the 700 for 200 rates. It was an ace that they dealt to their management team.
Lets see,
A vote conducted by company lackeys, with no transparency, and put into place by the company. Vote? there was no vote, just a smoke and mirrors puppet show conducted by the likes of DL, ME, JB et al.
The wool was pulled over your eyes and the company laughs all the way to the bank. Children stop believing in the easter bunny around 4-5, SKYW pilots continue believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. skyturd, jea and $hitpac all drink the kool-aid, and don't even realize that the kool-aid fountain is really JA's own personal urinal.
PBR
 
What I meant is how does management come up with the wages to begin with?
They take the most outrageous rate they can think of, run it by the SAPA lackey force, if they don't soil their Depends adult undergarments, it must be good. Then the salesforce that they spend more than $600,000 a year on proceed to sell it with the usual smoke and mirrors,"deal me an ace" puppet show. The turdz like skyturd et al, then whiff on the freshly loaded diaper smell emanating from the company proposal, and their SJS addled "brains", think "wow that will be really cool to be a pilot on an airplane with GASP, 70 whole seats, go to training and then fly it for, GASP the same rate as those crappy 50 seaters." Wow the company really must love me" passes through their pea brains, because they bought me a plane that is even easier to fly than those crappy 50 seat POSs. Well after the SJS wears off and the 70s start to have that a$$ smell their SJS addled brains start to add the difference that all the pilots at other carriers get more money to do the same work, and the grumbling starts. SKYW mgmt hears the grumbling all the way out at the houseboat, over the roar of the Bombarier jet skis, while drinking umbrella drinks served by SAPA toads(wearing french maid outfits) and add some goofy "override" formula to quell the rumblings, so they can get back to their umbrella drinks, having spent 5-8 minutes deciding on how to pull the wool back down over the pilots eyes.
Enough for now, gotta go fly!
PBR
 
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Lets see,
A vote conducted by company lackeys, with no transparency, and put into place by the company. Vote? there was no vote, just a smoke and mirrors puppet show conducted by the likes of DL, ME, JB et al.
The wool was pulled over your eyes and the company laughs all the way to the bank. Children stop believing in the easter bunny around 4-5, SKYW pilots continue believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. skyturd, jea and $hitpac all drink the kool-aid, and don't even realize that the kool-aid fountain is really JA's own personal urinal.
PBR

But what I'm asking is how do they come up with the rate that they put up to vote to begin with?
 
But what I'm asking is how do they come up with the rate that they put up to vote to begin with?





I believe they rounded a .1% raise down to 0% for the the EMB pilots, and this allowed them to round a 1/2% raise up to a whopping 1%(total for the next 4 years)for the RJ's...this after no COLA since out anniversary prior to 9/11(another 7 years of 0%)!

This was apparently more than enought to keep the kool-aid swillers like Skynation more anti-ALPA than ever!
 
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I believe they rounded a .1% raise down to 0% for the the EMB pilots, and this allowed them to round a 1/2% raise up to a whopping 1%(total for the next 4 years)for the RJ's...this after no COLA since out anniversary prior to 9/11(another 7 years of 0%)!

This was apparently more than enought to keep the kool-aid swillers like Skynation more anti-ALPA than ever!

Did Skywest management look at what other unionized regionals were paying their pilots' to set their own rate?
 
Does SAPA do this?


How Does ALPA Work for Pilots in Washington, DC?


As an airline pilot, your career is one of the most regulated in the country. Virtually every
aspect of your livelihood is controlled by laws passed by the U.S. Congress and
regulations adopted by the Executive branch of government. That’s why it’s critical to
have one strong, well-respected voice in Washington to articulate your job- and industryrelated
concerns. ALPA is that voice.

ALPA’s Government Affairs specialists and political action committee, ALPA-PAC, form a
very powerful team in the nation’s capital, working to protect your interests, your future,
and your livelihood every day.

ALPA protects your financial health
Ø ALPA led a successful seven-year campaign to prohibit states from taxing former
residents’ pension benefits—so-called “source taxation.”

Ø ALPA has secured several tax benefits for you, including:
*repealing the combined limit on benefits and contributions for participants
(including pilots) in both qualified defined benefit and contribution plans (Sec.
415(e));
*allowing lump-sum pension distributions to be rolled over into an IRA without
penalty;
*increasing the amount of compensation that can be used to calculate pension
benefits under a qualified plan from $170,000 to $200,000; and
*removing the additional tax on “excess” retirement distributions and
accumulations.

Ø ALPA undertook a major campaign to reverse the Supreme Court’s Bildisco bankruptcy
decision, persuading Congress to enact legislation that outlaws a company’s ability to
unilaterally abrogate its union contracts by declaring bankruptcy.

Ø ALPA worked with other AFL-CIO affiliated unions to defeat efforts to allow
corporations to use “excess” pension fund assets from defined benefit plans for any
purpose they chose.

Ø ALPA led the fight to obtain enactment of legislation that gives airlines a longer
amortization period and use of a more favorable interest rate in order to pay down the
unfunded liability of their defined benefit pension plans. Such legislation is designed
to prevent the termination of defined benefit plans, a trend that has plagued the
industry in recent years.

Ø ALPA led the fight to obtain enactment of legislation that would allow pilots whose
defined benefit plans have been terminated to receive a higher guaranteed benefit from
the PBGC.

ALPA improves aviation safety
Following “9-11,” ALPA Government Affairs staff—in conjunction with pilots of many
carriers who make up the Security Task Force, the National Security Committee, and the
Engineering and Air Safety and Communications Departments’ staff—made significant
contributions to the development of the Aviation Security Act, which was signed into law
on November 19, 2001 (PL 107-71). Included among the provisions recommended by
ALPA was the strengthening of cockpit doors and federalizing the security workforce.

Ø ALPA was at the forefront of the fight to enact legislation that created the Federal
Flight Deck Officer Program (FFDO). Despite the strong opposition of the
administration and the airlines, ALPA was able to win enactment of legislation that
created a program for qualified, volunteer pilots, both cargo and passenger, to be
trained and deputized as Federal Flight Deck Officers and to carry firearms as a last
line of defense against terrorism.

Ø ALPA convinced the FAA and DOT to establish one level of safety for all U.S.
commercial airline operations.

Ø ALPA led the effort to obtain legislation preventing the premature release of CVRs to
the public.

Ø ALPA has been a major player in developing the Airport and Airway Improvement
Program (AIP) and Aviation Trust Fund legislation during the last two decades,
including:
*establishing a “highest priority” list of safety items and navigational aids for
installation at commercial airports and directives on other safety features related to
crash survivability, fire retardation, and TCAS installation;
*pushing for release of Trust Fund moneys to be used for airport improvements;
*obtaining money for “universal access system” development and making the
equipment eligible for funding under AIP; and
*obtaining funding for programs to prevent runway incursion.

Ø ALPA has obtained federal funding for the Association’s Human Intervention and
Motivation Study (HIMS) substance-abuse program.

ALPA leads opposition to foreign control of U.S. airlines
In November 2005, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) issued a notice of
proposed rulemaking (NPRM) that would overturn long-standing policies prohibiting
foreign interests from exercising actual control over U.S. airlines.

Ø ALPA adamantly opposed DOT’s proposal because it would:
*Lead to outsourcing of U.S. piloting jobs;
*Undermine the Civil Reserve Air Fleet (CRAF); and
*Violate federal law prohibiting foreign control of U.S. airlines

Ø In December 2005, ALPA initiated a letter of protest sent by 85 members of the U.S.
House of Representatives and 5 U.S. senators to DOT. The administration dismissed
congressional opposition and refused to withdraw the NPRM.

Ø At ALPA’s prompting, legislation was introduced (December 2005) in both the House
(H.R. 4542) and Senate (S. 2135) that would prohibit the DOT from issuing a final rule
for one year and would direct DOT to bring the proposal before Congress.

Ø ALPA President Capt. Duane Woerth testified before the U.S. House Aviation
Subcommittee (February 2006) voicing serious concerns about the impact of the NPRM
on the U.S. piloting profession.

Ø Both the House and Senate Appropriations Committees included and passed report
language in the Supplemental Appropriations bill (April 2006) that would essentially
prohibit DOT from spending any funds to issue or to implement the proposal.

Ø In June 2006, ALPA spearheaded a lobbying effort that led to the successful passage of
the Oberstar-LoBiondo-Poe amendment in the House by an overwhelmingly bipartisan
vote of 291–137 in the Transportation Appropriations bill. The amendment would
prohibit DOT from using funds to issue and implement its current rulemaking. As a
follow-up, in a letter to the DOT Secretary, key members of Congress, including House
Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-CA), called on the DOT to
withdraw its NPRM.

Ø In July 2006, ALPA moved the fight to the Senate where an identical amendment
passed impressively by a vote of 19–6 in the Transportation Appropriations bill. In his
statement to the news media, President Woerth said: “Resounding opposition from
both houses of Congress and from both sides of the aisle is an unmistakable directive:
The DOT and the administration must immediately shelve this ill-conceived proposal
and bring any attempt to overturn the current law prohibiting foreign control of U.S.
airlines before Congress.”

Ø On December 5, 2006, DOT formally withdrew the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
that would have allowed foreign control of U.S. airline carriers.

ALPA has political clout
ALPA has been consulted prior to the appointment of top officials at the FAA, DOT,
NTSB, NMB, the Labor Department, and other key posts in the Executive branch because
of its excellent relations with pro-labor decision-makers in Washington.

ALPA achieves legislative and regulatory victories such as these in large part because of a
strong, well-funded legislative/political action program.

Information provided by:
ALPA’s Government Affairs Department
Paul Hallisay, Director
 
Did Skywest management look at what other unionized regionals were paying their pilots' to set their own rate?





Sorry, I was being sarcastic because I felt the "offer" they made was so sad and pathetic...it seems to me the only thing they did was try and figure out what figure was the absolute lowest they could offer and then have SAPA push as a fabulous offer that we had better vote yes on.?!
So they came up with 1% for some, 0% for others after we turned down the original very generous 1.2% for everyone...
 

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