Does SAPA do all this?

[Nevets]

Here is a list of the standard MEC committees. I'll attach a link at the bottom so you can read the purpose, duties and responsibilities of each in detail.

My question is, does SAPA or can SAPA do ALL of these in the best interest of Skywest pilots? Because ALPA can and does do that at each property they represent. Best thing is that YOU can volunteer to one or more of these committees IF you vote ALPA in. Think about it.

Air Safety Committee
Accident Investigation Committee
Aeromedical Committee
Communications Committee
Election and Voting Committee
Grievance Committee
Hotel Committee
Jumpseat Committee
Membership Committee
Negotiating Committee
Professional Standards Committee
Retirement and Insurance (R&I) Committee
Scheduling Committee
Security Committee
Training Committee

http://www.skywestalpa.org/documents/WhitePapers__ALPACommittees.pdf

 

[amcnd]

There are people at SkyWest that do all that already. We have a ASAP committee. We have a full security team. SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!! so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

 

[cwebster2]

...Negotiating Committe....

so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

you forgot a some big ones, leverage and the ability to bargain in good faith. can SAPA address those? There is no leverage when management can do as they please.

 

[John Pennekamp]

There are people at SkyWest that do all that already. We have a ASAP committee. We have a full security team. SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!! so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

Can you say with 100% certainty that the functions run by the company or SAPA are independent and accountable? Can the pilots recall the members and replace them if unsatisfied? Are their decisions consistent and even handed across the board? Are there checks and balances? Are the decisions binding?

 

[amcnd]

You decide. Im just pointing out, that all those jobs are taken care of right now.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!!

Probably on the company dole. What happens when he talks to you on a bad day and decides you're a little "down" and in need of medication. There goes your career.

 

[SkyNation]

what no one understands is it is results that matter. Jerry could say that his dog is the standards committee, his lawnmower the safety committee, and his Aunt Tilly is the whatever else committee. as long as our pilot group as a whole feels like we are getting a better overall deal than our competitors/counterparts, then it is an uphill climb to sell us on something different. if this drive fails, then that will be why. people here feel like we get a better shake overall doing it our way.

as long as our results are better, why would we change the method that obtains those results?

Nevets, how long have you been at Express?

 

[siucavflight]

Guys seriously who cares? If SKW votes in ALPA it will affect the SKW guys, if they dont it will affect the SKW guys. I am at Eagle, and very pro ALPA, but I have to say that Whether or not SKW is ALPA or not does not really change how I do my job. There is not a single person on here who can argue that they are undercutting any other regional, their pay is on par with the rest of us, and they are growing like crazy.
The only thing that I can say to you at SKW is remember even though it is good right now, there will be tough times ahead, there always are. And it is nice to have someone watching your back for you.(And by tough times it does not always mean for your whole pilot group, it could be just you that needs ALPAs help)
Good luck with the vote, either way SKW is still a good place to be!

 

[BigHangar]

what no one understands is it is results that matter. Jerry could say that his dog is the standards committee, his lawnmower the safety committee, and his Aunt Tilly is the whatever else committee. as long as our pilot group as a whole feels like we are getting a better overall deal than our competitors/counterparts, then it is an uphill climb to sell us on something different. if this drive fails, then that will be why. people here feel like we get a better shake overall doing it our way.

as long as our results are better, why would we change the method that obtains those results?

Nevets, how long have you been at Express?

What everyone has to remember is that so many people continue to compare SkyWest to all of the worst ALPA carriers; Mesa, PCL, ASA, and the rest. If you want to settle for mediocrity, then just keep on comparing what you have to them. If you want to aim higher, compare yourselves to the highest, like XJT, Eagle, Air Whiskey, etc...

I think that the reason the good ones are good and the bad ones are bad, is that the management and pilots set the tone together. It takes both to have it great. If SkyWest management is so good, and I believe they are good, then you'd have an outstanding chance of being on top. I would love that and so would all of the rest of the carriers, because it would help us all raise the bar little by little with future bargaining power.

Step up to the plate and hit a home run boys, stop being apathetic and content with less. If you think that your management might show their true colors if you bring ALPA on property, then they probably will anyway and you need all the contractual protection you can get.

 

[Nevets]

There are people at SkyWest that do all that already. We have a ASAP committee. We have a full security team. SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!! so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

The key to my original post is that is it in the best interest of Skywest pilots. The people on these ALPA committees are pilots helping pilots. Not someone employed by management.

For example, the Pro standards committee is there to resolve issues between pilots WITHOUT getting the chief pilot or management involved. That way there is no disciplinary action taken since it is pilots helping pilots resolve their issues with themselves.

Also, you mentioned ASAP. From what I understand, your ASAP is NOT de-identified. The ALPA Safety Committee has a member(s) that de-identify the report BEFORE management receives it. Our pilots are in charge of doing this. This is done through a Memo of Understanding between the FAA, management, and the pilots.

Second, we have many AMEs also, but again, he/she is paid by ALPA to look out after ALPA members interests only. They even help you through the bureaucratic red tape process to keep or get your medical back. All at no extra charge.

Third, your negotiating committee. What is it you negotiate? Do you understand that you are an "at will" employee? They don't negotiate anything with you. They just let you think they are.

Lastly, that was just a partial list. Some other committees are Merger, CIRP, HIMS, Pilot Mentor, Pilot to Pilot, Legislative Affairs. The committees vary from MEC to MEC. Its whatever YOU decided your pilots need.

Everything on my list is something you don't have. Because the people that would volunteer for those committees would not be beholden to your management. They would only be serving to benefit your pilots FIRST.

 

[Nevets]

what no one understands is it is results that matter. Jerry could say that his dog is the standards committee, his lawnmower the safety committee, and his Aunt Tilly is the whatever else committee. as long as our pilot group as a whole feels like we are getting a better overall deal than our competitors/counterparts, then it is an uphill climb to sell us on something different. if this drive fails, then that will be why. people here feel like we get a better shake overall doing it our way.

as long as our results are better, why would we change the method that obtains those results?

Nevets, how long have you been at Express?

Good point. But when I look at Skywest, I see the potential of Skywest being by far thee best regional to work for. But its going to take looking at your "results" now and understanding that your company can do a whole of a lot better. I'm not trying to patronize you. I'm serious when I say that you guys can be the shinning star in the night when it comes to regionals. You just have to make it happen because no one looks out for the best interests of pilots other than...pilots.

I've been at XJT for about 2.5 years.

 

[Nevets]

Guys seriously who cares? If SKW votes in ALPA it will affect the SKW guys, if they dont it will affect the SKW guys. I am at Eagle, and very pro ALPA, but I have to say that Whether or not SKW is ALPA or not does not really change how I do my job. There is not a single person on here who can argue that they are undercutting any other regional, their pay is on par with the rest of us, and they are growing like crazy.
The only thing that I can say to you at SKW is remember even though it is good right now, there will be tough times ahead, there always are. And it is nice to have someone watching your back for you.(And by tough times it does not always mean for your whole pilot group, it could be just you that needs ALPAs help)
Good luck with the vote, either way SKW is still a good place to be!

Here is how it can affect us all. I have no doubt that if Skywest votes for ALPA, they will have the industry leading contract in wages, work rules, and retirement. If they raise the bar, it makes it easier for the next guy to raise the bar.

Even the FedEx guys that were at the ALPA drive in LAX were saying that if Skywest can raise the bar, the will raise it to such a level where even the majors will start looking at them to raise the lower end of their bar. And that helps the next major that is going to into section 6 negotiations. These were FedEx guys who are at the top of the industry mind you.

 

[Nevets]

I think that the reason the good ones are good and the bad ones are bad, is that the management and pilots set the tone together. It takes both to have it great. If SkyWest management is so good, and I believe they are good, then you'd have an outstanding chance of being on top. I would love that and so would all of the rest of the carriers, because it would help us all raise the bar little by little with future bargaining power.

Step up to the plate and hit a home run boys, stop being apathetic and content with less. If you think that your management might show their true colors if you bring ALPA on property, then they probably will anyway and you need all the contractual protection you can get.

Its not only how the management and pilots set the tone together but more of how hostile the management is to their pilots, ie Mesa pilots vs Ornstein. I work at a place where our pilots have a respectful business like working relationship with management. We work with them and they work with us. Its a give and take and we both benefit from that relationship. But you have to have a management who is willing to have the relationship to begin with. Then its a matter of building trust with each other. If what some people say about your management is true, you will have no problems having a working relationship with them.

 

[SkyNation]

Good point. But when I look at Skywest, I see the potential of Skywest being by far thee best regional to work for.

many of us already think it is.

But its going to take looking at your "results" now and understanding that your company can do a whole of a lot better. I'm not trying to patronize you. I'm serious when I say that you guys can be the shinning star in the night when it comes to regionals. You just have to make it happen because no one looks out for the best interests of pilots other than...pilots.

if what you suggest is true, what makes you think that we could do it first shot right out of the box? we'll have a rookie MEC, a management that will say 'fine, we'll do it your way,' and years to wait and figure it all out, just to say 'oh well, it's just our first contract. we'll get 'em next time?'

I've been at XJT for about 2.5 years.

I have friends there, and I genuinely hope you are happy there. However, for the sake of comparison, had you come here 2.5 years ago you could have upgraded by now, made more $, seen more growth, etc. etc. We're not losing airplanes or flying. This is not to incite a pissing contest about who is better, but we have some here who constantly use XJET as the 'shining example' of what a mngmt/ALPA relationship can provide. what do you think? and just so you know, this is where all the skywest haters will pile on with their usual crap about how we have it good now, but just wait!

35 years so far........

 

[Bluto]

There are people at SkyWest that do all that already...SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs!!! so there is nothing on that list we don't already have.

Are you serious? Wow. That's just not true. List one person on SAPA's professional standards committee. We don't have one. Also, you might be interested in how many of the hard-working SAPA volunteers are pro-ALPA.

Ignorance like yours is the reason the ALPA drive may fail, not because SkyWest doesn't need it.

 

[Bluto]

what no one understands is it is results that matter. Jerry could say that his dog is the standards committee, his lawnmower the safety committee, and his Aunt Tilly is the whatever else committee. as long as our pilot group as a whole feels like we are getting a better overall deal than our competitors/counterparts, then it is an uphill climb to sell us on something different. if this drive fails, then that will be why. people here feel like we get a better shake overall doing it our way.

as long as our results are better, why would we change the method that obtains those results?

I agree that results are important. What's more important, though, is accountability. SkyWest management is not accountable to the pilots they have mistreated. While you may feel you get a better shake, you obviously ignore the plights of many others who disagree with you. This is part of the problem with many SkyWest pilots. It's not happening to me, so it doesn't exist. For quite a while, we had pilots in MRY with no doctor who accepted SkyWest's medical insurance. These pilots were paying for a medical insurance plan they couldn't use in their own home. Do you know how our then benefits chairperson/ now president responded? Something along the lines of, 'Well, it only affects a few of our pilots.'

This is exactly the problem with SAPA and the apathy of our pilot group. When it comes down to it, it is the self-centered, entitlement-oriented attitude that could keep a union off property here.

 

[Nevets]

I have friends there, and I genuinely hope you are happy there. However, for the sake of comparison, had you come here 2.5 years ago you could have upgraded by now, made more $, seen more growth, etc. etc. We're not losing airplanes or flying. This is not to incite a pissing contest about who is better, but we have some here who constantly use XJET as the 'shining example' of what a mngmt/ALPA relationship can provide. what do you think? and just so you know, this is where all the skywest haters will pile on with their usual crap about how we have it good now, but just wait!

35 years so far........

There are arguments to be made whether Skywest is thee best regional. The fact you don't have an enforceable contract is probably the best argument against it. My point is that you guys/gals can make it where it is undisputed that Skywest is THEE best regional to work for.

I'm not suggesting you will do it first shot right out of the box. But with the balance sheet Skywest Inc. has, the ASA TA, the help from ALPA National's Bargaining Committee and Financial Analysis Department, together with the apperant fair relationship you have with management, there is nothing to say you can't have an industry leading contract right out of the box. But even if its not, you will get a contract that is enforceable and better than the wages and terms of employment you have now. Your rookie MEC will not be short of assets and bargaining leverage to deliver something better than what you have now. And THAT is the point. You can make things a whole lot better there that some people don't even realize it.

As far as comparisons go, what you say may be true. But not everyone is in it for the money, or the upgrade, or the jet time, retirement funds, etc. Different strokes for different folks. And you guys can make it so that the guy who wants to get his PIC time and move on is happy and the guy who is there to make it a career is happy. We have that at XJT. We have good work rules, good wages, a retirement fund, relatively quick upgrades, we are NOT losing airplanes but rather increasing the amount of flying we do.

Many of these things are because we have a good relationship with management. We have given leeway in things so they can work out their business plans and we get something in return for them. Both sides understands the give and take and we both use it as a win win situation. We do have a good relationship. We get briefed constantly on business plans and we brief them on things that can be done better and how the pilots can help achieve that. Basically, the two sides trust each other to a certain extent.

I'm not a Skywest hater. On the contrary, I like you guys. I have many many friends there. And some that will make it a career there. That is why I'm posting in here.

Oh yeah, I'm very happy here. It was actually choice 3 out of 3 for regionals. But now I'm glad this is where I am instead of the other two places.

 

[Nevets]

Here is another list. This is the administrative departments, if you will, at ALPA National:

· Engineering and Air Safety
· Representation
· Communications
· Economic and Financial Analysis
· Finance
· Membership and Council Services
· Government Affairs
· Human Resources
· Information Systems and Services
· Systems Development
· Legal Affairs
· Retirement and Insurance

This is the "tool box" you may have heard people mention. These are the resources that your MEC would have at its disposal on a day to day basis. Does SAPA have a "tool box" that is geared to helping with the PILOTS' best interest first?

 

[Nevets]

Does SAPA provide a Major Contingency Fund? Of course not. They would probably fold like a lawn chair if they ever met a major contingency.j/k

Airline managements know that more than $86 million is available to ALPA groups large or small giving added meaning to ALPA’s strategy of “Strength From Within.”

During 2005 and 2006, the Mesaba MEC spent nearly $3.5 million for its negotiations, bankruptcy litigation, and strategic communications programs, including $2.3 million from the MCF. Total cost of ALPA’s efforts to defend the Mesaba pilots, including staff time, easily exceeded $5 million. In the past five years alone, more than $30 million was authorized for use by ALPA’s pilots, with more than $14 million to pilots of express carriers.

Its a myth that ALPA doesn't care about regionals or that its only for major airlines!

 

[Texx]

There are people at SkyWest that do all that already. SAPA has a Professional Standards Committe, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe.... and so on.....We even have a AME on hand ot help with our pilots needs[/n't already quote]

This should be Jerry has a Professional Standards Committee, Jumpseat, Negotiating Committe....Since all these people are bought and paid for by Jerry!