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Does a Masters Degree help

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Yea, DAL is one of the 5 or 6 that make it a hard requirement, in fact for while that had a list of something like 250 schools they would accept degrees from. Plenty of time to get that degree before they start hiring again.
 
Yip has some good things to say, but this is one matter where we differ. Education will never hurt you. I'm working on an MBA, so obviously, I'm in the "go for it" camp. This is my rationale:

* A wise person within the industry once told me that everyone is a clone of everyone else--the same education, flying background, etc. Anything that can be done to stand out from the crowd is worthwhile.

* Do I think that having an MBA will get me a flying job? No. It might help, but it won't be a deciding factor. But I'm doing it more as a hedge against a furlough or a flight department closing or a lost medical. You've got to have skills.

* Having an MBA will open up a lot of opportunities should I ever become disaffected with professional flying.

* Since my interests lie in corporate flying, having an MBA would allow me to serve in a dual capacity for an organization, i.e. corporate pilot and something else.

* I'm actually not in a real big hurry to take a $10k pay cut to commute and sit reserve and become embroiled in union politics. SJS? Not me. Maybe someday the time will come for that. Maybe I can figure out something better in the mean time. We'll see.

BenderGonzales said:
At the very least it might open doors to you that are outside of aviation. If the last 4 years haven't convinced everyone that plan "B" is a necessity... well, i'm not sure what will.

True dat!

Unfortunately, starting a masters degree just isn't as easy as writing a check and going to class. You have to take that GMAT and go through the stress of waiting to be accepted into a program again.

Unless you luck out like me, then your company pays for it. And my program didn't require the GMAT.


-Goose
 
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May I ask where you're going to school, Goose? I am thinking about Santa Clara U... they have a 3-years-of-Saturdays MBA as well as the night courses. I'll need to get my GMAT done quickly....
 
Pilot or MBA, which is it?

You have to decide on what you want to be a MBA or a pilot. If is a pilot, you fly airplanes and build resume stuff. It will take approximately 10 years to get to a career position in aviation. You have to commit to the time frame to make it. To not fly and get an MBA may be fun but it does nothing for your flying career. Now to get a MBA on the side, nothing wrong with that, it is a useful degree helps you understand money, investing, how businesses work,etc. However the fall back value of a MBA in greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management. But at age 53 after Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, plumping floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?
 
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anyone 50+ that is put on the street through is in a particularly tough position and has my sympathy. i too have been there. my degrees didn't help me as much as my friends. who i am very grateful to have. i hope someday i can pass the favor on to someone else.
 
Immelman said:
May I ask where you're going to school, Goose? I am thinking about Santa Clara U... they have a 3-years-of-Saturdays MBA as well as the night courses. I'll need to get my GMAT done quickly....

Hey, Immelman. I'll shoot you a PM if I haven't already done so.


pilotyip said:
To not fly and get an MBA may be fun but it does nothing for your flying career. Now to get a MBA on the side, nothing wrong with that...

I completely agree. I should have stated in my original post that I would not pursue an MBA if it would not allow me to continue to instruct full-time. Luckily, my program meets in the evenings, so I will continue to fly as much as I ever did. In fact, the free tuition for the MBA is one of my perks for flight instructing full-time for this particular organization.


However the fall back value of a MBA in greatly over rated.

You may have a point there, Yip--the "fall-back" value of a 30 year old degree may not help much. I'm a little more concerned with the short-range, say 5-10 years. And besides that, I'd say that an MBA is probably better than nothing.

It's been funny to hear the reactions of people in different professions when I tell them I'm going for the MBA. The pilots' opinions are mixed; the business people are all for it.

-Goose
 
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I'm sure not having the degree is holding me back, AND that is why I am currently enrolled finishing it up.
 
pilotyip said:
You have to decide on what you want to be a MBA or a pilot.

Yip,

I appreciate your insight. Another way to phrase the question, though, is whether you want to fly someone else's airplane where and when they tell you to.... or be the one deciding when and where we fly to in what airplane. I think business school is a good choice for someone who wants a shot at the latter.

I don't have a particular desire to be rich either, I just think it would be swell someday to operate a small firm that needed flexible regional travel, and then enjoy the heck out of writing off the cost of operating a business aircraft... that's my current dream (as far as aviation is concerned anyways!!).
 
Immelman said:
I don't have a particular desire to be rich either, I just think it would be swell someday to operate a small firm that needed flexible regional travel, and then enjoy the heck out of writing off the cost of operating a business aircraft... that's my current dream (as far as aviation is concerned anyways!!).

Oh yeah, nice little TBM or PC-12, maybe a Citation or LJ (but maybe that's a little too fancy.) That'd be sweet.

-Goose
 
I'm interested in what school it is too Goose. I was under the impression that a GMAT was a requirement for an accredited masters program. No?
 
I have mixed feelings on the matter as well. I was one that was constantly told "make sure you get a degree as a back up" ad nauseum. So I went to school and got a BS in AE engineering, all the while getting my ratings in spurts every other summer (PVT summer of 00, instrument summer of 04, comm/CFI this summer etc etc) as I was able to save; hell, in the end I got tired of it and financed the last two ratings.

What I learned is that the value of a degree one pursues as a 'back-up' is a deceitful pursuit. This is particularly true when all you've been trying to do all along is to steer AWAY from having to use that degree in the first place!

So, the only way my BSAE degree, and now the MSAE degree (yes yes, did it only for the rent money) I got coming up in December, will ever be of use to me is IF I ever make it to test pilot school, since it qualifies me to apply, that's it. Oh, and teaching community college (if I'm lucky) but I could have done that going education major for undergrad and grad; sure as hell would have been an easier 7 freggin' years and a whole lot more p$ssy for the same crappy pay.

And the other problem is that MOST of us (hopefully) understand that the aviation industry is a negative returns on investment pursuit. Too much money goes into it and there's no adequate compensation. But that's nothing more than a starving artist's dilema, we KNOW that. So, while we understand the economics of the matter, it still wasn't our FREGGIN' FAULT we were born in a time where our passion in life wasn't economically feasible.

So while I still continue to agree with the main point behind the 'get an education' spiel, in hindsight I would suggest to anybody "getting started in life" to go 'all-in' and get a degree in whatever, by the most inexpensive way possible and focus on the flying. This, of course, predicates getting a cake major so that your flight training won't be prolonged by your schooling like it did to me (of course I still continue to drink the test flight dream Kool-Aid which is why I did what I did but I digress). Otherwise, forget about flying altogether, pick a degree that is marketable, (nursing, pharmacy come to mind), reasearch the working conditions so as to insure that the thought of directly working in that field does not induce feelings of purposely crossing the median during your morning drive to that job, and build up the cash to do the flying recreationally. My guess is, if your passion for flying is indeed somewhat sincere, your satisfaction with ANY of these money-driven pursuits will always leave you a little empty as you look out the cubicle. Such is life I guess. I just wish they [affording the rent and happy about being alive] didn't have to be that mutually exclusive for pilots.


Now back to my pageant, er, Guard applications :D
 
BenderGonzales said:
I'm interested in what school it is too Goose. I was under the impression that a GMAT was a requirement for an accredited masters program. No?

No, not all programs require the GMAT... I got my MBA at an accredited school w/o the GMAT, although I did have to take a school specific entrance exam with a math and verbal section.
 
US Dept. of Labor -- Stats

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos107.htm#training

I'm sure most have already seen this. If not, look under," Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement," concerning civilian education preferences/requirements -- paragraph #5.

There are as many arguments surrounding the supposed degree "requirement" as there are avenues of gaining the flight time necessary to be considered competitive at most airlines. I'm not offering advice on either. Fact of the matter is, however, that the airlines prefer it to the point of its being a requirement. I think by failing to recognize/address this you're failing to deal with the reality of the situation.
 
Wow,

THanks everyone for the information, I've never created a post on any website that has drawn this much response!!

Just a quick FYI to maybe clarify for those who responded, I am currently 4 classes away from finishing my Master's degree, I work for an insurance company, but i've been bitting by the flight bug since I've been flying occasionaly for work. I know that people say that flying for a living is a lot different than flying for vacation/business, but from pilots that I know, they say that it is potentially the best job...depending on the state of the industry.

The only thing that I am debating is the cost of the schooling and the first few years trying to make a decent paycheck. Oh yeah, and since I just got married, I now have to make these big decisions with the wife. I just don't want to ever regret not doing something that I really wanted to do, like becoming an airline pilot in the interest of financial stability, etc.

Any further info would be greatly helped.

Thanks,

E-Train
 
The E-Train said:
Wow,

THanks everyone for the information, I've never created a post on any website that has drawn this much response!!

Just a quick FYI to maybe clarify for those who responded, I am currently 4 classes away from finishing my Master's degree, I work for an insurance company, but i've been bitting by the flight bug since I've been flying occasionaly for work. I know that people say that flying for a living is a lot different than flying for vacation/business, but from pilots that I know, they say that it is potentially the best job...depending on the state of the industry.

The only thing that I am debating is the cost of the schooling and the first few years trying to make a decent paycheck. Oh yeah, and since I just got married, I now have to make these big decisions with the wife. I just don't want to ever regret not doing something that I really wanted to do, like becoming an airline pilot in the interest of financial stability, etc.

Any further info would be greatly helped.

Thanks,

E-Train

Good luck to you E-Train, I'm sure things will pan out for you in the end, whichever course you take.
 

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