Does a DUI 3-5 years ago Kill your chances of getting hired?

[satpak77]

Uh, fact check

lots of responses and thanks. I can only answer what I know. His fingerprints from the FBI come back clean, as he had to do that to get back into Canada. I have only heard that the drivers record only go back 5 years. As far as "get out of aviation". I don't think i will tell him that. The two drunk pilots that flew NWA from FAR-MSP both got jobs after prision. One is at NWA and the other is at American. As far as a good traffic lawyer.... Thanks I will tell him about that.

1. FBI record, driving record, etc or not, if he disclosed it on his FAA Medical application (per regs), that record is not "going away".

2. Electronic Print checks on the border (entering USA) do not reveal prior arrests they just hit on outstanding active arrest warrants and any existence on look-out, terror lists. Again this is inbound, INTO the USA. If soccer mom in her mini-van is entering, minimal checks will be done. If a bearded guy from Algeria tries to enter, with blueprints to the Statue of Liberty, CBP will take a DNA sample and give him a colon exam. So his DUI may (and is likely) still "findable". You said he was getting back into Canada, it is unlikely he even interacted with CBP or any other official if he is exiting USA.

- Fingerprints "came back clean" how are you aware of this exact event ? Discuss because I think you are lacking some info on how things work. What do you even mean by "came back clean?"

3. NWA Captain Norman Prouse, returned to NWA, largely because NWA's CEO or another upper manager had struggled with alcholism and realized a bad decision didn't make someone a bad guy. That was 1990. Times are prob different today.

4. Driver's records are held by State authorities. How far it "goes back" is anyones guess, but if a criminal felony conviction exists on his record, it is never going away. Period, end of story.

5. The CoPilot, Robert Kirchner is at or was at Atlas Air as of recent as a 747 Captain. Not American.

6. If he doesn't tell, and they find it, he might be blacklisted forever, via word of mouth by the HR folks at the various companies. Hey, its not impossible in todays age of interconnectivity. If he tells, comes clean, etc, hey, maybe he gets hired.

7. Get a lawyer, etc. The time to do it was 2 minutes after his DUI arrest. 3-5 years later, save your money. Lawyer can't do anything at this point.

QUESTIONS:

Did "your friend" disclose this on his FAA Medical application?
During court/legal proceedings did his employment or even mere fact that he held a FAA pilots license come to light?
Was it the first DUI and if so, why was it not pled down to reckless driving or similar charge. First time arrests for DUI rarely result in actual DUI conviction unless you really earned it (ran over someone, crashed into a building). First time DUI one block from home and no other issues is gonna end up reckless driving.

I raise my "more to the story" flag on this one...

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think DUI's are misdemeanors, but it doesn't really matter. In order to get hired, he would have to lie on his application. They specifically ask for any and all criminal/traffic convictions on every major airline application I've ever seen. If they don't find it, which they probably will, it's a matter of time before the rumor makes it back to the company. Why risk that? Time to go get that MBA and do something else.

 

[Abernathy]

why was it not pled down to reckless driving or similar charge.

DUI laws are so easy here. There needs to be mandatory sentences, like first offense, lose the right to drive for 5 years ("reducible to 3" if the FAA designs the law). That way, guys like this guy's buddy would think twice before driving intoxicated.

 

[Max Q]

I don't know what information the company has access to and how far back it all goes and I'm not willing to find out the embarrassing, shameful, and potentially career ending way. My driving record was horrendous prior to accepting a job with my current employer and I made absolutely certain that it was going to be the first thing I discussed during the interview. Tell your friend to be a man. If his actions lead to undesired consequences, there is only one person to blame. Otherwise, if he owns up to his mistakes, makes a special effort (and I mean seriously flipping go out of your way effort) to discuss this with the company prior to anything else, I think his actions will pay off.

DON'T:

"Okay first question, how's your driving record?"

"It's good" (But only because it was over 10 years ago and/or your rich parents paid a lawyer to have your DUI expunged)

DO:

"Okay, first question, what is your tot..."

"Actually, before I waste our time, I just want to discuss my sh(beep)tty driving record..."

(Obviously, don't interrupt the guy but you get the idea... )

 

[rickair7777]

This is the US of A. You can get anything done with enough $$$. Just look at our politicians (now & then). Talk to a specialized traffic attorney to get your DUI removed. It'll cost you, but that's the price for a piece of mind.

You may be able to get it removed from state/local records, but never the FBI records, which what the TSA background check uses. Even though a DUI is not a TSA no-go offense, the airline will probably still see every arrest and conviction in your FBI record (for significant offenses, parking tickets, minor moving violations, and very minor misdemeanors probably don't show up)

Since the FBI records are used for national-security purposes, you cannot get anything expunged from them. This is OK for most industries because civilian employers don't normally have access to those records...airlines being an exception.

 

[LJ45]

my buddy got in trouble going into Canada for an arrest in the 70's, domestic with ex-wife, even though he was never convicted. He has to carry a letter, saying he was never convicted, only arrested.

 

[johnpeace]

It'll make it that much harder is all. At times, it'll mean nope, no interview...at other times it'll be overlooked. Just depends on how bad the airline needs pilots and how many qualified candidates are available.

I know that even at the PEAK of the hiring at ASA (late 2007) one of the pre-interview questions was about DUI/driving record...

 

[satpak77]

A DUI can be a felony if a death or serious injury results. A "first time" arrest, driving home from the club, one block from your driveway, no other factors, and you were nice to Mr. Officer, will be pled down to reckless driving or possibly even dismissed completely.

In Texas a DUI arrest for the third time, is a felony, irregardless of cicrumstances.

There is usually no automatic "its a misdemeanor." That is up to the prosecutor (DA) handling the case. The simple case above will be the typical exception.

 

[CX880]

You may be able to get it removed from state/local records, but never the FBI records, which what the TSA background check uses. Even though a DUI is not a TSA no-go offense, the airline will probably still see every arrest and conviction in your FBI record (for significant offenses, parking tickets, minor moving violations, and very minor misdemeanors probably don't show up)

Since the FBI records are used for national-security purposes, you cannot get anything expunged from them. This is OK for most industries because civilian employers don't normally have access to those records...airlines being an exception.

This is a nice piece of info since it shows that you can't hide a DUI even if it's expunged. Imagine those guys that put no to a DUI thinking it doesn't exist anymore.... Just man up. A DUI is a very hard thing to explain, put yourself in the interviews shoes, would you want to hire someone that is capable of getting a DUI? Unless you have 8 planes ready to be flown with 2 people interviewing, the answer is NO. So make sure you justify your cliche explanations by doing community service or something to say to them that you have changed.

 

[satpak77]

Just for some clarification

An "FBI record" is "born" when your prints are submitted to the FBI via physical print cards mailed to FBI by the arresting agency OR via electronic fingerprint submission. In almost all jurisdictions if you spent the night (or a few hours) in the local jail for anything, your prints went to the FBI, for ID, etc purposes.

No prints, no record. Prints, you probably got a FBI record. If you got asked to "come down to the station" to "take your prints" but were allowed to go home after that (pending the prosecutor reviewing the case, etc) your may still have an FBI record.

Prints + Arrested + spent ANY time in local jail = 102 % chance you have an FBI record.

FYI for those who think they can "outsmart" a bunch of electronic databases that all talk to each other.

 

[RJLoser]

May want to some of your own fact checking satpac.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

lots of responses and thanks. I can only answer what I know. His fingerprints from the FBI come back clean, as he had to do that to get back into Canada. I have only heard that the drivers record only go back 5 years. As far as "get out of aviation". I don't think i will tell him that. The two drunk pilots that flew NWA from FAR-MSP both got jobs after prision. One is at NWA and the other is at American. As far as a good traffic lawyer.... Thanks I will tell him about that.

Canada is the big deal.

 

[N813CA]

i will have to ask him these questions. His probation stated that if he was good for year that the DUI charge would go away. It was his first. He had his fingerprints taken at the local police station and sent them to the FBI with money asking for his criminal record. They came back reporting no criminal record. Yes he told the FAA and when he got his medical. So are you saying they can look into that? I agree he should just be honest. If this "pilot shortage" really happens it won't be as critical.

 

[414Flyer]

Dont forget about the Problem Driver Pointer system that searches the national driver registry. If there was an action against a drivers license (revoke, suspended, etc), it will be on there. and air carriers must submit that paperwork to search it

 

[satpak77]

May want to some of your own fact checking satpac.

Oh yeah, like what (since you failed to point that out)

Please please enlighten me