do you wear a parachute?

[avbug]

Joe,

I worked at one time near that area, and flew in and out of Reno, Minden, Yerington, Carson, and most other locations throughout the area on a daily basis. It was constantly on my mind. Rather than moving to avionics soloutions, which may be unworkable for a number of reasons, starting with good old fashioned physical separation by keeping sailplane activity in one are and arrival/departure corridors in another may be a more viable soloution. More of an airspace issue. Drawbacks also exist ranging from weather to limiting soaring ground, which may be worked out...but truly this area has long been an accident waiting to happen. Everybody knows it.

 

[glasspilot]

Let me start by stating that I am not a glider pilot but would very much like to get the cert. (something seems truly pure about gliding and I'd like to try it.) Anyway, I digress...

Talking about the midair with the glider and the jet (I saw the pic of the jet. looks bad)...Why don't you glider pilots put a dang transponder in your aircraft? I know it would cost a few fpm in you thermalling but there has got to be a light and effective way to put a hand held unit in a glider. Maybe if you were as interested in safety devices (I'm talking specifically about the transponder) as you are about an extra 5 foot glide ratio, manufactures would make a very light transponder for gliders.

As a jet pilot I assure you that we do not "see and avoid". Sure down low in the pattern our eyes are outside but above a few thousand feet we mostly look out when the tcas yells traffic or ATC says there's traffic. A glider without a transponder would miss both of those systems.

I see two safe scenarios;

1. gliders get transponders. or...

2. gliders stay is airspace boxes so other planes don't hit 'em.

I swear to God I respect glider pilots. I don't want to restrict gliding. But there has GOT to be a way to put a transponder in a glider.
After all, we can put a Man on the Moon right? A computer chip in a dog, and a cell phone in the purse of a house wife on a farm in Iowa. Lets put a xponder in gliders.

Fly safe.

 

[ultrarunner]

I find it odd that a glider pilot doesn't WANT to be seen...but then, I'm not a glider pilot.

But I gotta believe that Akihiro Hirao would have appreciated the Hawker getting out of the way if they had gotten a TCAS alert.

Sad part is the Hawker pilot will prly get violated for not 'giving way'.

 

[avbug]

As a jet pilot I assure you that we do not "see and avoid". Sure down low in the pattern our eyes are outside but above a few thousand feet we mostly look out when the tcas yells traffic or ATC says there's traffic.

Speak for yourself, mate. I most certainly do see and avoid. At higher speeds, particularly above 10,000, this becomes more difficult due to higher closure rates, but I'm all lights-on and eyes-out once below FL180. I treat the matter like my life depends upon it. Because it does.

Think about your peanut gyro and the minimal time you have on the standby power source. A half hour, right? For the weight in a sailplane, installing a transponder (never mind the cost), there's still very little time out of a battery for that transponder. Some use them, some use solar trickle chargers, but between the weight penalty and the balance issues...it's not practical (to say nothing of the cost).

Perhaps you're one who believes that aircraft without radios are dangerous...but the law has always been, and is now, SEE and avoid, not listen and avoid. Not let the fish finder see and avoid, but you, the certificated pilot, see and avoid. Get your head out of the cockpit and see, and avoid.

Sad part is the Hawker pilot will prly get violated for not 'giving way'.

That is never going to happen.

 

[n32jk]

Let me start by stating that I am not a glider pilot but would very much like to get the cert. (something seems truly pure about gliding and I'd like to try it.) Anyway, I digress...

Talking about the midair with the glider and the jet (I saw the pic of the jet. looks bad)...Why don't you glider pilots put a dang transponder in your aircraft? I know it would cost a few fpm in you thermalling but there has got to be a light and effective way to put a hand held unit in a glider. Maybe if you were as interested in safety devices (I'm talking specifically about the transponder) as you are about an extra 5 foot glide ratio, manufactures would make a very light transponder for gliders.

As a jet pilot I assure you that we do not "see and avoid". Sure down low in the pattern our eyes are outside but above a few thousand feet we mostly look out when the tcas yells traffic or ATC says there's traffic. A glider without a transponder would miss both of those systems.

I see two safe scenarios;

1. gliders get transponders. or...

2. gliders stay is airspace boxes so other planes don't hit 'em.

I swear to God I respect glider pilots. I don't want to restrict gliding. But there has GOT to be a way to put a transponder in a glider.
After all, we can put a Man on the Moon right? A computer chip in a dog, and a cell phone in the purse of a house wife on a farm in Iowa. Lets put a xponder in gliders.

Fly safe.

Let me clarify that I am both a jet pilot and a glider pilot. I DO NOT think restricting giders to Boxes is a good alternative for airspace below 18K. Transponders are not an alternative for all operations as stated eloquently above. Power requiremenst are too great, especially since as of now the regulations state if you got it, it has to be on. That is why maybe something like above 12K must have. If installed only need be on when required by above mentioned ,,,, etc.

Gliders fly cross country, much of it at lower altitudes. What you suggest would make flying a sailplane more restrictive than a skyhawk. I can gaurantee that glider pilots look outside more than your average cessna pilot.

Some areas beg for more oversight than others. Restrict gliders more than ultralights or cessna's is not the answer.

Joe

 

[glasspilot]

Speak for yourself, mate. I most certainly do see and avoid.

Get your head out of the cockpit and see, and avoid.

Hey Avbug;

1st: I'm not your "mate".

2nd: I'm telling you what is. I know everyone would like to believe professional pilots are constantly looking outside. But believe me that is NOT the case. In all my years of flying I've never met a pilot that as spent a great deal of time looking out the window unless the TCAS is going off or ATC says there's traffic. I've been an FO and a CA. I've commuted for over 7 years. In all of that time none of my "pilots in the other seat" or even the "major airline pilots" of the airplane I was jumpseating on have done it either. Below a few thousand feed...yes, we look outside a great deal more. Above a few thousand feet...it's pretty much instrumentation. Right or wrong it's a fact. I've been in flight in the jumpseat at night and seen the CA turn on the dome light so he could read the newspaper and eat his diner. I don't mean to drone on but it is just a fact of life; it is the extremely rare jet pilot that looks outside on his own for traffic when flying. TCAS has done a wonderful job of preventing midairs but it has also made pilots more reliant on electronic equipment to avoid those same midair collisions

I really do respect glider pilots and that is sort of the reason I even made it to this thread, but I'm also telling you the truth from an airline/cargo/corporate point of view. Airplanes without transponders operating where other airline/cargo/corporate aircraft operate is a recipe for problems.

I can't think of a reason a transponder couldn't be installed in any airplane. With today's electronics capabilities they could make a hand held or a very cheap panel mount that would fix the problem. I truly think America has enough airspace for everyone to get what they want out of aviation.

Fly safe.

 

[avbug]

I'm telling you what is.

No, mate, you're not.

The law is see and avoid. I strive very hard to respect that law. That you do not may be your reality, but it's your shortfall; it's your failing.

Admitting it is the first step. Now pull your head out of the cockpit and LOOK!!

 

[glasspilot]

No, mate, you're not.

The law is see and avoid. I strive very hard to respect that law. That you do not may be your reality, but it's your shortfall; it's your failing.

Admitting it is the first step. Now pull your head out of the cockpit and LOOK!!

Well, you've flown "all" of the aircraft and have "all" of the ratings and with over 5,000 post on this board I guess you know what happens. My apologizes, you're right.

 

[Gorilla]

Sorry, I refuse to buy the concept that a glider transponder weighs too much or draws too much power. Any glider tooling around above 10,000' is very likely a pretty advanced ship with water ballast and all kinds of goodies to make it competitive.

Get yourself a modern Lithium-Poly battery and a transponder; it'll work fine for any concievable duration and cost you perhaps 5 to 8 pounds. Big deal. The problem isn't technical, it's being cheap and simply not wanting to hassle with it.

 

[USMCmech]

The club where I fly gliders near SAT has transponders installed in some aircraft, and comm radios in them all which we use to monitor approach. I frequently call aproach and let them know where I am at and that I will be monitoring their freq.

It is esspecially important because the airport we fly out of is right under the approach corridor for 12R at SAT.

RE: "see and avoid", it's wishfull thinking in the world of jet aircraft. I have a hard enough time spoting aircraft when ATC tells me where they are at, much less random small objects like a glider aproaching at over 200kts closure.

Do I keep scanning for traffic, you bet. But I am also aware of the limitations of the human eyes and brain.